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The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

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Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#221

Post by keithpeter »

derleth wrote: post #19
ChuckMcM wrote: post #13

I enjoyed this rant. The bottom line is that this 'experience' isn't about you, its about who you can be sold too. That is because "you" are too cheap to pay what "we" think should be paid for them. It is like a hotel which sells you room for $100 a night if you agree to let them leave a web cam on 24/7 and sell any useful 'snippets' it catches while you are there. The bulk of the market doesn't buy "computers" they…

> The bottom line is that this 'experience' isn't about you, its about who you can be sold to To be honest, I didn't jump from Windows to Linux because of this. I jumped because Windows ME was just that bad. However, this makes me increasingly happy I jumped with each new version of both Windows and MacOS. > Time to start a 'developers' company that works very much on the same model that Sun Microsystems started on,…

"Now that Norton was gone, I personally happen to like Comodo firewall. So I go to download it, but the installer nicely tells me that this doesn't work on Windows 8, and I need to download another file instead. However, this is their pro product, which basically means it's filled with crap. It's a good thing I noticed the tiny Customize Installer button because otherwise it would have: Changed my home page, subscribed me to something called GeekBuddy, enrolled me to their cloud program, change my DNS servers, and sent information about each scan it does to the company. The same was true with many of the applications I installed, like Adobe Reader trying to install McAfee, or QuickTime trying to sign me up for offers."

I hope Mark Shuttleworth might read and understand this paragraph before he continues to reduce the trust of Ubuntu users. The crucial difference between users of Windows/Apple on the one hand and GNU/Linux on the other is that Linux users have choices at the distribution level. A secondary advantage for GNU/Linux users is that once a distribution has been chosen, application software is packaged centrally with some degree of oversight so this kind of bait and switch by software vendors becomes harder.

The Ubuntunaughts at Canonical seem to be heading in the direction of selecting hardware which they can ensure will 'just work'.

Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#222

Post by UnoriginalGuy »

eps wrote: post #154
jiggy2011 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I mentioned elsewhere, doing a clean Windows install is difficult if the only means of reinstallation you have is the bundled "recovery DVD" which puts all of the shit right back on there. With regards an APT for Windows, I don't see how that wouldn't be possible to add to Windows as a third party thing. With a nice GUI and search and a default catalog of quality mainly OSS software with no toolbars or BS and have…

Microsoft provides official (clean) ISO of W7 flavours - http://www.mydigitallife.info/download-windows-7-iso-officia... So, basically, burn respective .iso to a USB key, boot from it, install, enter the key from the sticker on the bottom of the laptop - done. Caveats are (a) limited choice of languages (b) lack of some brand-specific drivers, but if you run English version on a common laptop, it's very straight forw…

These won't work with OEM keys supplied by the manufacturer. You would need to acquire your own key (enterprise, retail, etc.).

Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#223

Post by UnoriginalGuy »

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #213
revelation wrote: post #81

I had a good laugh at people recommending Ubuntu. I recently installed the very latest Ubuntu on a VM, started the launcher, typed "terminal" ... and looked in utter disbelief as it started showing me random movies and crap from Amazon. If that is your idea of a better operating system, try again.

I have a good laugh at people that dismiss an entire OS for a problem solved with 10 seconds and 20 characters of effort.

Go read the article again. Now consider how inane what you just said is?

The whole point of the article is that these issues can be solved but that the combination of all of them eventually make the platform bad.

Your "just turn it off" statement couldn't be more off-base for this discussion if you tried.

Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#224

Post by keithpeter »

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #213
revelation wrote: post #81

I had a good laugh at people recommending Ubuntu. I recently installed the very latest Ubuntu on a VM, started the launcher, typed "terminal" ... and looked in utter disbelief as it started showing me random movies and crap from Amazon. If that is your idea of a better operating system, try again.

I have a good laugh at people that dismiss an entire OS for a problem solved with 10 seconds and 20 characters of effort.

Or by clicking a switch in system settings.

Explanation for those outside the Ubuntu bubble: 12.10 has had an Amazon search integrated into the main Unity lens, and this is enabled by default. Early in the release of 12.10 a graphical 'kill switch' was added to system settings. Before that, you had to uninstall a package manually from the command line.

As I commented up the screen, I hope Canonical don't alienate their users with (any) more of this sort of thing as switching between GNU/Linux distributions is relatively easy.

Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#225

Post by internetf1fan »

gizmo686 wrote: post #101
unimpressive wrote: post #25

I remember reading that this is the reason[2] Steve Jobs wouldn't license the Mac OS X operating system to other OEM vendors. As I understand it, a good deal of this crap is caused by misaligned incentives. Software companies pay OEMs to preload computers with their buggy, invasive, resource hogging software. Thanks to the Microsoft Windows operating system having all sorts of nooks and crannies to hide this sort of…

The cure could also be MS limiting what OEMs can do to the pre-installed OS. Of course, if OEMs switch to free OSes, the copyleft would make it impossible for the OS maintainer to make any such demend. Another solution would be consumer pressure to not crap load PCs. This is one of the main reasons Macs did so well, but their is no reason a OEM cant get a brand recognition as non crap-loaded PCs.

DoJ anti trust ruling means MS can't dictate what OEMs can or can't install on their PCs. Just another way the stupid ruling has hurt the consumers more than it helped them.

Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#226

Post by internetf1fan »

CountSessine wrote: post #60
pizza wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And now they all sneak garbage adware with the check boxes enabled by default because most people just click "next" anyway. While I agree that OEM computers come installed with a lot of crap, that's not a Windows problem, that's an OEM problem. > Also the whole download and install drivers/utilities etc after installation is very time consuming because the OS has almost nothing bundle The OS part of Windows is abou…

While I agree that OEM computers come installed with a lot of crap, that's not a Windows problem, that's an OEM problem. Windows is as successful as it is because of Microsoft's cooperation with crappy OEMs who are only too happy to betray their customers for a quick buck. You can't have Windows without the OEMs - show me the Microsoft PC you plan to buy. Microsoft does the best they can, working within their constra…

Erm no the DoJ anti trust ruling means that Ms can't dictate what the oems can or can't install on their machines.

Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#227

Post by internetf1fan »

naner wrote: post #42
unimpressive wrote: post #25

I remember reading that this is the reason[2] Steve Jobs wouldn't license the Mac OS X operating system to other OEM vendors. As I understand it, a good deal of this crap is caused by misaligned incentives. Software companies pay OEMs to preload computers with their buggy, invasive, resource hogging software. Thanks to the Microsoft Windows operating system having all sorts of nooks and crannies to hide this sort of…

Perhaps the answers are: 1. 1st-party OS installations in which the OS creators sell you the hardware with only the OS installed (Apple). Or possibly 3rd parties can license your OS only if they don't install any additional software (sort of like Nexus phones). Or obviously you could install Linux distros yourself... which is not appealing to most people. 2. Monitored software installations either in the form of (A)…

Ms can't dictate such licensing terms because of the stupid anti trust ruling.

Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#228

Post by yxhuvud »

ROFISH wrote: post #29

Note this is an aside on USEFUL background apps, not spyware/crapware, since it appears he disabled the update mechanisms in the last two paragraphs: Most of those background service apps (Google Update, Apple Push, Adobe Update) are because a tiny background app is necessary to preform certain functions, and check for updates in the background, which is a good thing! For example, 'iTunesAgent.exe' on Windows was to…

Actually it is a bad thing since system updates should be a centralized feature and not something that should need to be reinvented (badly) by every other program you install.

Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#230

Post by mikeash »

mturmon wrote: post #183
mikeash wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's even worse than that, as Woz effectively left Apple after his plane crash in 1981. He continued to officially be an employee, but didn't contribute a whole lot after that point. Quitting in 1987 was more of a formality than anything. The last Apple computer Woz had a direct hand in designing was either the Apple II or the II+ (I can't quite figure out which), over three decades ago. Woz was a genius when it came…

Thanks to both you and the parent for thoughtfully laying out the history. Saying the "two Steves" as if they are parallel doesn't make sense.

I wonder if this trope would ever come up if one of them were named Bob instead.
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