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The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

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Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#211

Post by eldavido »

commandar wrote: post #185

I bought a Vizio thin and light partially because it came with what Vizio and Microsoft dubbed "Windows Signature." Which is essentially marketing speak for "Windows. Just Windows. No crapware preinstalled." It was almost weird to be able to take a PC out of the box and be able to immediately start using it. Microsoft apparently worked pretty closely with Vizio on this, which suggests that Microsoft knows that the ex…

They do (have friends in the shell team @ MS). It's just really hard for them to hit the right balance between compatibility, which is _super_ important to their bread-and-butter enterprise customers, vs. providing a clean crap-free experience to consumers.

For better or worse, the "consumer" user of Windows -- a person at home, without an IT support desk, who purchased his computer himself at a store -- captured a lot of attention inside Microsoft for this release.

I'm not at all surprised to see more Apple-like behavior from them, e.g. (1) restricting what Windows RT can run to the software available in the windows app store, (2) completely breaking app compatibility for older (WinForms) apps on WinRT, (3) getting way more draconian about hardware requirements for the Phone (specification of button counts/sizes, etc.), (4) having a "Signature" edition of windows.

MS has been fighting this battle for decades -- most blue screens were caused by crappy hardware drivers; they knew this but couldn't fix the problem without hugely breaking compatibility.

Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#212

Post by sbuk »

CountSessine wrote: post #59
eli wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is nonsense fanboism. Modern versions of Windows are extremely similar to OS X from a usability perspective. OS X has plenty of counterintuitive warts. Computers of any flavor are pretty hard to use. > I never understood the install wizards for windows software... I never understood why half the time when I download Mac software and double click it, nothing seems to happen because it's a "disk image" (talk about…

This is nonsense fanboism . Modern versions... You lost me at the first sentence.

Me too, I clearly missed the bit in the parent where givan openly gushed about OSX being better than Windows at installing software.

Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#213

Post by drivebyacct2 »

revelation wrote: post #81

I had a good laugh at people recommending Ubuntu. I recently installed the very latest Ubuntu on a VM, started the launcher, typed "terminal" ... and looked in utter disbelief as it started showing me random movies and crap from Amazon. If that is your idea of a better operating system, try again.

I have a good laugh at people that dismiss an entire OS for a problem solved with 10 seconds and 20 characters of effort.

Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#214

Post by belorn »

ricardobeat wrote: post #128
belorn wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly what contributions did Steve Jobs do beyond opening up markets by design and marketing powers? It had a large impact on a number of industries, but your statement implied a multiple of contributions.

Bringing tablet computing, multi-touch, voice control, quality screens (IPS etc), video-calling on phones, small utility software, ubiquitous (real) web access, to mainstream (before someone attacks: yes, all these existed for a long time, but only became common place after Apple pushed them)? Pushing hardware design way past what anyone else was doing in the past half dozen years? Cornering the music industry with a…

Opening up a market is a contribution (singular) to the community, but this is a thin line to call "tremendous contributor". Wallmart was one of the major players in pushing USB drives and 3g modems to the public. Does this mean that Wallmart is a tremendous contributor to USB?

In what way has multi-touch been pushed way past what anyone has done in the past? (say, compared to Sears et al work from 1990?) Actually, any of the technologies on that list, in what way were they pushed way past what anyone else was doing in the past? Cornering the music industry (legally) was an achievement indeed, but a tremendous contribution? My thought goes back to Wallmart and any product that they was first to successfully sell.

Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#215

Post by belorn »

depr wrote: post #138
belorn wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When disagreeing, it would benefit if the person who downvote would say what the contributions are instead of silently downvote. Hacker news arent a poll of "do you like Steve Jobs" with simple yes/no, and i am honestly interested to hear what those contributions are.

yeah well his contributions have been discussed numerous times, followed by people saying he didn't really have much to do with those things. This part of HN is so repetitive.

Its useful to reiterate the discussion in case new facts or concept can be brought forth. mostly, I ask the question to confirm (or disprove) my own opinion. If a person states disproven facts, one should always allow the person the back his statements up.

Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#217

Post by motters »

pjmlp wrote: post #190
motters wrote: post #78

The first thing to understand is that this isn't a problem with contemporary computing per se, it's a problem with Microsoft Windows and its software ecosystem.

Any ecosystem that has OEMs: - Symbian - Android - Linux distributions on netbooks - ...

Yes, this might be a problem with proprietary software more generally - that it ultimately ends up trying to strongarm or "hard sell" the user rather than merely trying to meet their requirements.

Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#218

Post by kxs »

rcb wrote: post #120

After almost 20 years of running Linux, FreeBSD (and even NextStep!) on x86 bare metal, I've for the time being gone back to Windows. It's a fast dual-head box. One screen is all Windows (and I'm typing this from IE 10), and the other is xmonad and emacs on Arch Linux on VirtualBox. I'm also an Apple user (and AAPL shareholder), owning two (2010 and 2011 model) MBPs, and it is my opinion that Windows 8 is gorgeous an…

Although I haven't tried Windows 8 yet, I had the same experience using Windows 7.

It's interesting that only 7 years ago you probably wouldn't have be able to sit me in front of a Windows machine without resistance or at least some complaining. Since then I turned out to be a frequent defender of Microsoft in my surroundings and I'm considering ditching my Apple ecosystem for Windows 8 (esp. because of Surface and Windows Phone 8).

But the real problem, as have stated other, is OEM software and 3rd-party-apps. It takes effort to maintain your system (although not much, at least in my opinion, but you have to pay attention to, for example, what is installed along the way). I usually have none of the problems my peers or friends have (with Windows) and if you look at their machine, you'll see why. Almost every time I visit my father, there is a new (worthless) toolbar installed.

Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#219

Post by chris_wot »

natep wrote: post #131
belorn wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When disagreeing, it would benefit if the person who downvote would say what the contributions are instead of silently downvote. Hacker news arent a poll of "do you like Steve Jobs" with simple yes/no, and i am honestly interested to hear what those contributions are.

I didn't downvote because I disagreed (or agreed), but because your question seemed very accusatory and asked in bad faith, so it does not contribute to the discussion. A reworded question that made it clear you were honestly inquiring still might not get answered, but I wouldn't downvote.

Really? Seems like a legitimate question to me.

Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#220

Post by [deleted] »

ricardobeat wrote: post #148
zanny wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The singular man acting as CEO did all this, and more! He is smarter than everyone else ever . Or he just used smart and predatory business practices, and somehow was the only major player to realize eyecandy will win over configuration for everyone that wants just a "tv" into the internet.

Well, just 20 minutes ago I was using my "TV" and it's nice unix shell to develop a cross-platform multiplayer game. And you could say it's usability and experience over configuration, not eye-candy (remember Aero Glass? KDE Plasma?), althought nice-looking interfaces can help with both. No, he didn't do all this himself, but he was captaining the ship. Has Sergey Brin changed the way people use the internet?

[deleted]
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