221–230 of 350 posts
Will IPV6 become a type in sql databases?
Both IPv4 and IPv6 addresses are 'just' u_ints: one is 2^32 and the other is 2^128. The fact that we display them in a particular format (10.11.12.13; ff:ee::bb:aa) is only for human UX purposes.
Strictly speaking everything in a computer is 'just' a number represented in base-2 (binary digits: bits) that we affix certain labels to (char, int, float, struct).
Earlier quoted context omitted.
>other than port forwarding >other Well you just handwaved away the most significant difference between NAT and native IP, obviously there won't be any major difference to discuss about anymore! No, we can't ignore port forwarding. The key thing to realize about NAT is that someone owns the NAT. Back then, the NAT lived inside each of the home routers, so even if you have a "strict" NAT (endpoint-dependent mapping NA…
What is this entitled mindset that somehow people without CG-NAT already benefit from their public IPv4? The only benefit I get from port forwarding is being able to expose my Plex media server to the wider internet, and Tailscale and Steam Networking being able to establish P2P. But even UDP should work through CG-NAT. So you can't hole-punch over WAN -- I've never encountered even a single piece of software that ne…
I will raise you the opposite point: why deprive people of their ability to have a globally addressable IP address?
>But even UDP should work through CG-NAT.
I have already told you why it is wrong to make such as assumption, haven't I?
I have heard of stories coming from China and Vietnam that some ISPs implement so-called "type 4 NAT", otherwise known as symmetric NAT or NAT with endpoint-dependent mapping.
This kind of NAT is NOT hole-punchable. And because you don't control the NAT, you are simply SOL if one day your NAT decides to switch to it. Can't even use Tailscale without significant service degradation now, ouch.
Granted, I have only heard about it in Vietnam and China, and it's not a national thing -- only some provinces seem to have symmetric NAT implemented. But I feel the need to remind you that the ISPs there were able to get away with it, because the two countries have significant IPv6 presence. [0]
>Port forwarding is nice, but everyone already knows you can hardly run a server at home (even in countries where port forwarding is standard).
You can hardly run a server at home because we have been facing address space depletion since the dot com bubble.
>I hardly understand why it warrants treatment as such a terrible awful disaster.
You haven't faced an overloaded CGNAT gateway, have you? [1]
[0]: https://stats.labs.apnic.net/ipv6/XD
[1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/ipv6/comments/1as8dvy/is_there_a_wa...
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It’s clumsier than ipv4. It’s unnecessary since NAT was invented. This is a privileged view of someone whose ISP has enough money (or was around early enough) to get enough IPv4 addresses to assign one to every customer's WAN interface. Not everyone is so lucky. A lot of folks get non-publicly-routable 100.64.0.0/10[1] on their WAN interface with no way to do hole punching because they're behind CG-NAT. [1] https:/…
so ipv6 is now a social justice issue? I'll send you the $2 a month for a elastic IP .
And the billion people in India? The billion in China? The billion on the continent of Africa? And even in the US:
> Our [American Indian] tribal network started out IPv6, but soon learned we had to somehow support IPv4 only traffic. It took almost 11 months in order to get a small amount of IPv4 addresses allocated for this use. In fact there were only enough addresses to cover maybe 1% of population. So we were forced to create a very expensive proxy/translation server in order to support this traffic.
> We learned a very expensive lesson. 71% of the IPv4 traffic we were supporting was from ROKU devices. 9% coming from DishNetwork & DirectTV satellite tuners, 11% from HomeSecurity cameras and systems, and remaining 9% we replaced extremely outdated Point of Sale(POS) equipment. So we cut ROKU some slack three years ago by spending a little over $300k just to support their devices.
* https://community.roku.com/t5/Features-settings-updates/It-s...
* Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35047624
It's okay for the folks that got in early on the IPv4 address gold rush to tell them "fuck you, we got ours"?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's literally impossible, to hear some people tell it. "And also, look how hard it'd be to memorize that address", say the people who remember like 2 IPv4 addresses, one of them being 127.0.0.1.
Tailscale, perhaps ironically in this context, has shown me the value of not caring about an IP address. I used to. When I had a home network I'd carefully assign `10.52.1.x` where `x` was the periodic number corresponding to the machine name! (I write from `lutetium`.) Now, with Tailscale's magic DNS – `lutetium` being all I need – why on Earth would I give a crap about an IP address? I've gone from being obsessed t…
But yeah. On my own LAN, everything is DHCP for IPv4 and SLAAC for v6. Everything uses mDNS and I connect to everything by name, not address. I can only remember the static IP of one of the servers; the rest are purely names.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
What is this entitled mindset that somehow people without CG-NAT already benefit from their public IPv4? The only benefit I get from port forwarding is being able to expose my Plex media server to the wider internet, and Tailscale and Steam Networking being able to establish P2P. But even UDP should work through CG-NAT. So you can't hole-punch over WAN -- I've never encountered even a single piece of software that ne…
>What is this entitled mindset that somehow people without CG-NAT already benefit from their public IPv4? I will raise you the opposite point: why deprive people of their ability to have a globally addressable IP address? >But even UDP should work through CG-NAT. I have already told you why it is wrong to make such as assumption, haven't I? I have heard of stories coming from China and Vietnam that some ISPs implemen…
I wouldn't. I just don't understand, if the alternative is having no internet access at all, why CG-NAT is so utterly deplorable.
> This kind of NAT is NOT hole-punchable. And because you don't control the NAT, you are simply SOL if one day your NAT decides to switch to it.
Can you clarify what you mean by hole-punchable? If all else fails, just use TCP, right? Does TCP also not work? I'm also not talking about connection between peers but connection to a server. Connection between peers has never been a 100% reliable strategy regardless of anything.
> You haven't faced an overloaded CGNAT gateway, have you? [1]
I have not, but that is not inherent to CG-NAT, is it? Any switch or other hop between you and your destination can be overloaded. The destination itself can be overloaded.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's literally impossible, to hear some people tell it. "And also, look how hard it'd be to memorize that address", say the people who remember like 2 IPv4 addresses, one of them being 127.0.0.1.
When people are managing 20 devices on a network, they access everything by IP address directly and struggle with constant DNS issues. Introducing a more complex system without easing any of the cognitive load and making fun of it is just cruel at this moment. Users need a simpler way to connect to their devices, and what tailscale did with magic dns shows that users don’t even care about IPv4 they just want to conne…
I agree with the sibling comment: crummy CPE is crummy CPE. This is a solvable problem, but people end up with junky routers and it causes them anguish.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s not even a valid representation of the address (you need brackets )
The brackets are only needed for URLs, scp, and a few other things, due to the fact that ports are specified with colons. Usually you don't see them in a CIDR.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
>What is this entitled mindset that somehow people without CG-NAT already benefit from their public IPv4? I will raise you the opposite point: why deprive people of their ability to have a globally addressable IP address? >But even UDP should work through CG-NAT. I have already told you why it is wrong to make such as assumption, haven't I? I have heard of stories coming from China and Vietnam that some ISPs implemen…
> I will raise you the opposite point: why deprive people of their ability to have a globally addressable IP address? I wouldn't. I just don't understand, if the alternative is having no internet access at all, why CG-NAT is so utterly deplorable. > This kind of NAT is NOT hole-punchable. And because you don't control the NAT, you are simply SOL if one day your NAT decides to switch to it. Can you clarify what you me…
I... uh, what? Please... learn more about hole punching before trying to engage in the topic.
Hole punching, in the context of NAT, is a technique where you establish peer-to-peer connection between hosts behind a NAT.
It does not matter which protocol you use, UDP or TCP or chuckles SCTP. If you want to establish P2P connection, you must hole punch.
The only alternative is to use relays.
>I have not, but that is not inherent to CG-NAT, is it? Any switch or other hop between you and your destination can be overloaded.
A typical hop does not need to maintain a huge dynamic state table. NAT, due to its very own temporal nature, must do so.
>destination itself can be overloaded.
Apples and oranges. Destination overload is a service problem. Hop overload is an infrastructural problem.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
so ipv6 is now a social justice issue? I'll send you the $2 a month for a elastic IP .
> so ipv6 is now a social justice issue? I'll send you the $2 a month for a elastic IP . And the billion people in India? The billion in China? The billion on the continent of Africa? And even in the US: > Our [American Indian] tribal network started out IPv6, but soon learned we had to somehow support IPv4 only traffic. It took almost 11 months in order to get a small amount of IPv4 addresses allocated for this use.…