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The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

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Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#131

Post by natep »

belorn wrote: post #110
belorn wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly what contributions did Steve Jobs do beyond opening up markets by design and marketing powers? It had a large impact on a number of industries, but your statement implied a multiple of contributions.

When disagreeing, it would benefit if the person who downvote would say what the contributions are instead of silently downvote. Hacker news arent a poll of "do you like Steve Jobs" with simple yes/no, and i am honestly interested to hear what those contributions are.

I didn't downvote because I disagreed (or agreed), but because your question seemed very accusatory and asked in bad faith, so it does not contribute to the discussion. A reworded question that made it clear you were honestly inquiring still might not get answered, but I wouldn't downvote.

Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#132

Post by [deleted] »

antidoh wrote: post #121
jiggy2011 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I mentioned elsewhere, doing a clean Windows install is difficult if the only means of reinstallation you have is the bundled "recovery DVD" which puts all of the shit right back on there. With regards an APT for Windows, I don't see how that wouldn't be possible to add to Windows as a third party thing. With a nice GUI and search and a default catalog of quality mainly OSS software with no toolbars or BS and have…

"doing a clean Windows install is difficult if the only means of reinstallation you have is the bundled "recovery DVD" which puts all of the shit right back on there." That's not a clean install. A clean install is buying a retail version of Windows and blasting it down on your HD. Recovery DVDs recover what the hardware vendor put there in the first place.

[deleted]

Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#133

Post by zanny »

bo1024 wrote: post #79
jiggy2011 wrote: post #74

This is one of the reasons I like running Linux, although this is really mainly a feature of having a smaller userbase and being mainly OSS so it is less of a target for this BS. The only alternative for the mainstream seems to be the sandboxed type approach of iOS/WinRT. Oh, some developers abuse browser toolbars? No browser toolbars period! Background processes can make your system slower? No background processes p…

Yeah, as a Linux user this article was just a list of reasons not to go back to Windows. It does seem ironic that the product you pay for is far more anti-consumer than the free (in both senses) alternative. But I don't think that fact can be denied.

It is inherently anti-consumer by being non-free software. Honestly, the FSF did call this crap, for all those who call them insane. They are insane, but they are sensibly insane.

Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#134

Post by zanny »

ricardobeat wrote: post #128
belorn wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly what contributions did Steve Jobs do beyond opening up markets by design and marketing powers? It had a large impact on a number of industries, but your statement implied a multiple of contributions.

Bringing tablet computing, multi-touch, voice control, quality screens (IPS etc), video-calling on phones, small utility software, ubiquitous (real) web access, to mainstream (before someone attacks: yes, all these existed for a long time, but only became common place after Apple pushed them)? Pushing hardware design way past what anyone else was doing in the past half dozen years? Cornering the music industry with a…

The singular man acting as CEO did all this, and more! He is smarter than everyone else ever.

Or he just used smart and predatory business practices, and somehow was the only major player to realize eyecandy will win over configuration for everyone that wants just a "tv" into the internet.

Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#135

Post by gizmo686 »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #109
gizmo686 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that if you do not like the desktop on most Linux distros, you can go into the package manager, install another desktop, and then log out and back into that one.

You are both right of course. But in being so right we can see the problem. If I am a third party software package and I try to install I have to know all the possible window systems you may, or may not, have running. And it gets worse for me if I only support one since there will be vocal anti-support for any version I pick. I really disliked the Windows95 window system which I was thrust into when I left Sun for a…

> If I am a third party software package and I try to install I have to know all the possible window systems you may, or may not, have running. And it gets worse for me if I only support one since there will be vocal anti-support for any version I pick.

Most software packages do not need to know what window system you are using, and when they do, it is almost always for non critical conveinces in OS integration.

>Linux gives you that chance, you can stick with what ever window system you want as long as your willing to recompile from source if it stops getting maintained. And maintain all of the packages that go with it, and maintain all of the utilities that adjust it, and maintain all of those 'throwaway' apps that you use from time to time. It wears on one to do so.

That rarely happens with popular software. The most common thing to have happen is your preffered distribution swithces window systems, in which case the actual maintainer of the system will continue to maintain it. Or in the case of Gnome, the old version will get forked and maintained by another group. The only time the problem you describe will happen is if the developers of the window system abandon it, and it is not a highly popular system. This is far less frequent than the OS maintainer deciding that the software is not the one true way.

Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#136

Post by pooriaazimi »

kstenerud wrote: post #124
biturd wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is a company that does what you suggest. I will probably get down voted for saying it, but Apple. They put in the time to make a pretty darned good user experience for first impressions. There's no junk, no spyware, nothing to remove. Occasionally you might get a software bundle, like Office, or Quicken, but literally just drop it in the trash and you are done with it. Rarely would you have to find an u…

Definitely NOT Apple. Despite their open source site, the most important bits of the OS are closed, and so developers can't dig into the OS to figure out if the bizarre behavior they're seeing is a bug in the OS or not. Worse, they can't submit patches for things they do find. Instead, they have to go submit a radar report, which can't be seen by anyone but themselves. It's so bad that it has become common behavior t…

accidental downvote - sorry

Edit: Really? Someone downvoted my explanation?!!!

Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#137

Post by pooriaazimi »

zemanel wrote: post #83
shock3naw wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get real? Why the hostility? Eli's comment is aimed at how unintuitive OS X's system is, not how inconvenient it is compared to Windows.

In my opinion it's not "installing" apps in Mac that can be "unintuitive", it's grasping the fact that a lot of applications are self contained; setting up an application on your OS is as simple as dragging it to a folder on your hard drive (generally) and it can be unintuitive to users that are accustomed to Microsoft installers and package managers. OSX by default (at least for DMG's) opens a window with the extrac…

> it can be unintuitive to users that are accustomed to Microsoft installers and package managers

I was afraid of that first, but after I briefly explained that to my father 3 years ago, he has never had a problem again (except with Flash Player)

Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#138

Post by depr »

belorn wrote: post #110
belorn wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly what contributions did Steve Jobs do beyond opening up markets by design and marketing powers? It had a large impact on a number of industries, but your statement implied a multiple of contributions.

When disagreeing, it would benefit if the person who downvote would say what the contributions are instead of silently downvote. Hacker news arent a poll of "do you like Steve Jobs" with simple yes/no, and i am honestly interested to hear what those contributions are.

yeah well his contributions have been discussed numerous times, followed by people saying he didn't really have much to do with those things. This part of HN is so repetitive.

Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#139

Post by nsp »

aristidb wrote: post #28
tsm wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with mobile devices is that when they are prefilled with OEM crap (mine came with Motoblur, Blockbuster, and several other terrible media-streaming apps), there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. Windows may have a terrible default experience, but at least it's fixable.

OK, admittedly the fact that I stick to Google Nexus and Apple brand kind of makes me oblivious to the existence of all that crapware. But as far as I can tell, some people actually like what HTC and Samsung are doing with their Android.

The customizations that people like on android phones are usually the skins - touchwiz on htc phones and sense on samsung's. Many fewer people use/like the Verizon-specific app store or V-cast or whatever their proprietary video service is called these days, which are more directly equivalent to the crapware referred to in the article.
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