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The Little Coder's Predicament

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Re: The Little Coder's Predicament

#41

Post by swombat »

Erf wrote: post #5

Truth. I got my start in programming with BASIC via DOS. Today, I find that the biggest mental block to learning a new language is the difficulty of setting up a development environment. It's at least a little bit surprising that platform developers don't put more of an effort into making coding for their platforms more accessible. One might assume that Microsoft would have a lot to gain from a generation of young pr…

Yes. I got started on the Commodore 128D, after I got bored of all the games mine came with. Would I have done so if there hadn't been a BASIC manual on my shelf and an interpreter baked into the system? Dubious. I then learned Pascal once I got my first PC, because Turbo Pascal had been included by the previous owner. The first compiler I had to fight for was Turbo C (had to convince my mom to ask one of her colleagues for a copy). But by then, I'd been programming for over 3 years.

Re: The Little Coder's Predicament

#43

Post by catch404 »

I owe alot to the Pre-computer 1000 : http://www.vintagecomputing.com/index.php/archives/324

As a 7 year old I just loved the feeling of making the computer do what I want. The instant feed back of print/ input/ run cycle also played a big part in it.

After playing with C++, Pascal and learning Java I didn't get the same feeling until I started learning Python - Really captured that moment again :)

I've enjoyed learning Clojure too - the LISP syntax is so different to what I've learnt that it brings the same feeling :)

Great article!

Re: The Little Coder's Predicament

#44

Post by snprbob86 »

njharman wrote: post #27

The BASIC of today is HTML/CSS/JavaScript. Then there are things such as http://tryruby.hobix.com/ and processing.

First, you are totally right about HTML/CSS/JavaScript

Second, that's a pretty cool link! I don't know Ruby, so I learned a thing or two. Unfortunately, I had to use some of my existing programming experience to save me when I experimented a bit. For example, I decided I liked 'cheese' better than 'honeydew'. That put me in a state where I needed to guess what the tutorial was monitoring for and had to replace cheese to move forward. Additionally, there was times where I experimented and it advanced a page with no way for me to go back. With some polish, this could be a very promising educational tool!

Re: The Little Coder's Predicament

#45

Post by thalur »

ojbyrne wrote: post #4

I get his point, but can't get away from the idea that he's describing the web... and php. New distribution system, larger audience, same idea.

(as a web programming novice) I think the problem with the web in this context is there are still some significant hurdles to getting set up, e.g. getting a server to host your webpages (unless you only want your friends to be able to see it when your PC is on). If you could get rid of these barriers...

I think if someone could provide a browser-based all-in-one solution with language+IDE+hosting+tutorials, then that would fulfill most of his criteria. You could type a few lines, instantly view the page and then send a link to your friends (who can view it at any time).

Re: The Little Coder's Predicament

#46

Post by thalur »

Spyckie wrote: post #17
burke wrote: post #11

I learned to program on my TI-83. Over the past few decades, computers have built more and more walls between typical users and programming, whereas on my calculator, it was right there... on a whim, I could, say, make a program to calculate the area of a trapezoid. At the time, if you asked me to do the same thing on a desktop computer, you'd be getting a blank stare. Graphing calculators today are essentially the n…

Yeah, I learned on my TI-89. Ironically, made a DnD character stat generator and a function to calculate the first 6 elements of an infinite series... (calc class was quite boring). I abused the GOTO statement, though... hey, it wasn't like you were going to care about elegant code design at age 14 on a TI...

I suspect you hadn't been indoctrinated on GOTO being the one_true_evil at that point. I remember writing programs on my TI83 during maths and physics classes, but BASIC on a BBC was where it all started for me. Lots of GOTOs there. >:)

Re: The Little Coder's Predicament

#47

Post by axod »

neilk wrote: post #22
ojbyrne wrote: post #4

I get his point, but can't get away from the idea that he's describing the web... and php. New distribution system, larger audience, same idea.

Possibly, but PHP limits you to web-style interactions. You have to be excruciatingly clever to get it to act like a chat server or something. And forget about doing animation or sound or anything fun .

So once you've mastered php, you move onto something more powerful.

You can do tons in javascript these days also.

Re: The Little Coder's Predicament

#48

Post by axod »

thalur wrote: post #45
ojbyrne wrote: post #4

I get his point, but can't get away from the idea that he's describing the web... and php. New distribution system, larger audience, same idea.

(as a web programming novice) I think the problem with the web in this context is there are still some significant hurdles to getting set up, e.g. getting a server to host your webpages (unless you only want your friends to be able to see it when your PC is on). If you could get rid of these barriers... I think if someone could provide a browser-based all-in-one solution with language+IDE+hosting+tutorials, then that…

"If you could get rid of these barriers..."

What you don't think there are enough ridiculously bad programmers using PHP/javascript already?

Barriers to entry are good. It sorts the people who really want to do it because they love it, from the rest.

Re: The Little Coder's Predicament

#49

Post by snprbob86 »

hedgehog wrote: post #29
Erf wrote: post #5

Truth. I got my start in programming with BASIC via DOS. Today, I find that the biggest mental block to learning a new language is the difficulty of setting up a development environment. It's at least a little bit surprising that platform developers don't put more of an effort into making coding for their platforms more accessible. One might assume that Microsoft would have a lot to gain from a generation of young pr…

Someone at MS cares: MS Small Basic http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/devlabs/cc950524.aspx

We care on the XNA team as well! It's not bundled, but you can develop for your Xbox 360!

http://creators.xna.com/

C# Express, Game Studio, and XNA Framework are free for personal and commercial use on Windows. Deploying to your Xbox 360 costs $99/year which includes the rights to sell your games on Xbox Live.

The download includes a simple Platformer game "starter kit" (written by yours truly) which is perfect for game development newbies with just a tiny bit of programming experience. There are loads more samples at http://creators.xna.com/en-US/education/catalog/

Re: The Little Coder's Predicament

#50

Post by Create »

As a general note, consumers are not supposed to fiddle with the product, since customizations are supposed to be sold as services related to the mass market item. Exploration and learning should be restricted as much as possible (see Digital Restrictions Management, and the Right to Read). But then again, dumbing down consumers does fire back in the end...

So when users do finally get to program, the supported way of doing it is: http://www.charlespetzold.com/etc/DoesVisualStudioRotTheMind...

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