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The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

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Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#41

Post by SquareWheel »

ROFISH wrote: post #29

Note this is an aside on USEFUL background apps, not spyware/crapware, since it appears he disabled the update mechanisms in the last two paragraphs: Most of those background service apps (Google Update, Apple Push, Adobe Update) are because a tiny background app is necessary to preform certain functions, and check for updates in the background, which is a good thing! For example, 'iTunesAgent.exe' on Windows was to…

In cases of useful background apps (and there are few), they should be run from the Windows scheduler. They don't need to always be running.

Why do we need 30 individual software update checkers running anyway? Linux solved this problem many years ago.

Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#42

Post by naner »

unimpressive wrote: post #25

I remember reading that this is the reason[2] Steve Jobs wouldn't license the Mac OS X operating system to other OEM vendors. As I understand it, a good deal of this crap is caused by misaligned incentives. Software companies pay OEMs to preload computers with their buggy, invasive, resource hogging software. Thanks to the Microsoft Windows operating system having all sorts of nooks and crannies to hide this sort of…

Perhaps the answers are:

1. 1st-party OS installations in which the OS creators sell you the hardware with only the OS installed (Apple). Or possibly 3rd parties can license your OS only if they don't install any additional software (sort of like Nexus phones). Or obviously you could install Linux distros yourself... which is not appealing to most people.

2. Monitored software installations either in the form of (A) community managed software repositories as done with Linux distros and the BSDs, and/or (B) "app stores" with restrictive policies and sandboxed apps.

Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#43

Post by spindritf »

hoka wrote: post #23
givan wrote: post #3

Not computer users, just the windows users. I never understood the install wizards for windows software, in 99% of the time you just click "next" until it stops asking for more "next". And now they all sneak garbage adware with the check boxes enabled by default because most people just click "next" anyway. Also the whole download and install drivers/utilities etc after installation is very time consuming because the…

yeah, I definitely prefer 'sudo apt get install this-thing && sudo pray-to-god-this-works'

There's a pray-to-god part, true. Largely when it comes to hardware support, which may require some unpleasant steps. Or may not work at all, though that can be usually known beforehand.

But once you get the hardware to work, apt-get install really is a great way to get quality software. You list a bunch of stuff and it will get installed. Without trying to trick you into bundled crap, without charging you, with quite decent documentation included. If you run into trouble, there are people you can reach out to -- other users of your distro, mailing list, even the authors. It's not perfect, and may be time consuming but head and shoulders above of what regular users of other systems can get nowadays.

More than that. Package is maintained by people who use it themselves and will usually get updated in a timely manner, with minimal effort required on your part.

Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#44

Post by smacktoward »

notatoad wrote: post #20
eli wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is nonsense fanboism. Modern versions of Windows are extremely similar to OS X from a usability perspective. OS X has plenty of counterintuitive warts. Computers of any flavor are pretty hard to use. > I never understood the install wizards for windows software... I never understood why half the time when I download Mac software and double click it, nothing seems to happen because it's a "disk image" (talk about…

Modern versions of windows are extremely similar from a usability perspective, sure. But that's windows as defined by microsoft , and OSX as defined by apple . The problem occurs because third parties try to shoehorn all kinds of crap into windows applications and onto the windows desktop. There's nothing wrong with windows in theory, but in practice there sure are a lot of people trying to fuck up windows. It's much…

there sure are a lot of people try to fuck up windows. It's much less of a problem on other operating systems.

Possibly because Windows has many, many, many more users than other operating systems do.

It's like the old urban legend about bank robber Willie Sutton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Sutton) answering a reporter's query about why he robbed banks with "because that's where the money is." Crapware vendors focus on Windows because that's where the users are.

Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#45

Post by purplelobster »

And this is why I'd prefer to buy a laptop or tablet directly from Microsoft. OEMs are doing an increasingly bad job, with everything from hardware to software. The exception I can see is Lenovo, which is the only OEM I'd buy anything from.

Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#46

Post by mhurron »

unimpressive wrote: post #25

I remember reading that this is the reason[2] Steve Jobs wouldn't license the Mac OS X operating system to other OEM vendors. As I understand it, a good deal of this crap is caused by misaligned incentives. Software companies pay OEMs to preload computers with their buggy, invasive, resource hogging software. Thanks to the Microsoft Windows operating system having all sorts of nooks and crannies to hide this sort of…

> the reason Steve Jobs wouldn't license the Mac OS X operating system to other OEM vendors

The reason Jobs didn't license out OS X is because the last time Apple did that it almost killed the company. One of the first things Jobs did on returning to Apple was end those agreements.

Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#48

Post by unimpressive »

smacktoward wrote: post #44
notatoad wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern versions of windows are extremely similar from a usability perspective, sure. But that's windows as defined by microsoft , and OSX as defined by apple . The problem occurs because third parties try to shoehorn all kinds of crap into windows applications and onto the windows desktop. There's nothing wrong with windows in theory, but in practice there sure are a lot of people trying to fuck up windows. It's much…

there sure are a lot of people try to fuck up windows. It's much less of a problem on other operating systems. Possibly because Windows has many, many, many more users than other operating systems do. It's like the old urban legend about bank robber Willie Sutton ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Sutton ) answering a reporter's query about why he robbed banks with "because that's where the money is." Crapware ven…

One of the major reasons genetic diversity is important is that it makes it harder for a population to be wiped out by infection. The windows monoculture is inevitably a victim of itself.

Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#49

Post by SquareWheel »

makeset wrote: post #21

The pleasure of uninstalling with a Delete keystroke is reason enough to move to MacOS. Say what you will against Apple, but I have been just plain peaceful ever since I smashed my blue-screened Windows laptop on the wall and walked out to buy a Mac years ago.

Sounds like you'd enjoy Metro.

Re: The amount of crap Windows users have to put up with is incredible

#50

Post by geon »

hoka wrote: post #23
givan wrote: post #3

Not computer users, just the windows users. I never understood the install wizards for windows software, in 99% of the time you just click "next" until it stops asking for more "next". And now they all sneak garbage adware with the check boxes enabled by default because most people just click "next" anyway. Also the whole download and install drivers/utilities etc after installation is very time consuming because the…

yeah, I definitely prefer 'sudo apt get install this-thing && sudo pray-to-god-this-works'

Actually, there is a certain class of software that works amazingly well that well. Installing apache/php/mysql on linux with apt beats macports or plain windows so hard it's not even funny.
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