Car sales has always struck me as an industry that was ripe for disruption. Why do we still need car salesmen?
We need car salesmen so every new car can be sold at a different price, thus capturing max revenue from consumers.
Car Dealers Sue Tesla, Citing State Franchise Laws
101–110 of 111 posts
Re: Car Dealers Sue Tesla, Citing State Franchise Laws
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can they order the car on premises (even if it is a computer with a web browser in the studio)?
I can go to McDonalds and order an Apple computer by calling 1-800-MY-APPLE. I can also do so by using McDonald's wireless. If I don't have a computer or phone I can go to the library and use theirs. Is McDonalds a Apple dealer because I can order an Apple from inside the restaurant? Is the city library an Apple dealer? If the argument is true that this location, which does not accept money or purchases, and which do…
Look, you can throw up all the theoretical scenarios that don't relate to the specific laws all you want, but it does not change this:
does a car manufacture have a place displaying their car in which the car can be ordered.
Apple is not party to any of the car franchise laws (there are no computer franchise laws) and McDonalds doesn't make cars. We are talking about a case relating to actual laws.
Re: Car Dealers Sue Tesla, Citing State Franchise Laws
#103Any bets on how this is going to play out?
Re: Car Dealers Sue Tesla, Citing State Franchise Laws
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
America has anti-trust laws. Companies are not supposed to be allowed to wield undue market power (e.g. be able to set the price of their type of product). Now this is obviously complex. But basically a lot of anti-trust battles led to the de-verticalization of numerous businesses: from film studios which owned theaters, to Standard Oil which owed oil, railroads, refineries, distribution centers, etc. The idea is to…
Apple is anything but small... they passed Exxon earlier in the year as the world's most valuable company. They ship more computers than nearly any other company (save maybe HP). So when do they start being big enough to be affected by this law? I also find it interesting that you also compared them to Microsoft, since Microsoft is now opening retail stores.
He wasn't referring to the present. He was referring to the past.
Re: Car Dealers Sue Tesla, Citing State Franchise Laws
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
America has anti-trust laws. Companies are not supposed to be allowed to wield undue market power (e.g. be able to set the price of their type of product). Now this is obviously complex. But basically a lot of anti-trust battles led to the de-verticalization of numerous businesses: from film studios which owned theaters, to Standard Oil which owed oil, railroads, refineries, distribution centers, etc. The idea is to…
Apple is anything but small... they passed Exxon earlier in the year as the world's most valuable company. They ship more computers than nearly any other company (save maybe HP). So when do they start being big enough to be affected by this law? I also find it interesting that you also compared them to Microsoft, since Microsoft is now opening retail stores.
A monopoly is usually a company which has price making power (on the whole industry) and has established barriers to entry that prevent competitors from entering the market.
The key reason Apple isn't considered a monopoly is that even though they are huge, they don't' have a monopolistic position in their products. For smartphones they have a market share of ~20% worldwide and in the PC market the hold ~5%. Even on the country level, the numbers never get to a level where people would usually scream monopoly.
You could argue that they probably have monopolistic market share on the tablet market but most wouldn't consider that an industry in itself (yet) and they haven't exhibited the characteristics of a monopoly: price setting for the industry and an inability for new players to enter the market. It's actually possible to not be considered a monopoly even with a huge market share if you can prove you don't control the industry.
Apple's normal business model allows them to thrive without being a high volume business; their per device profit margin greatly exceed any competitor, so they can still be hugely profitable with low market share.
Re: Car Dealers Sue Tesla, Citing State Franchise Laws
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
Depends if jury believes putting down deposit is "buying" or not.
Tesla has an online reservation system ( https://www.teslamotors.com/own ). From http://automotivedigest.com/2012/10/dealers-annoyed-with-tes... : > Tesla’s stores are a bit different – essentially showrooms to gain consumer interest and education. For those impressed and wanting to buy, they’re directed to a computer to make their deposit and place their order. Tesla here is clearly navigating on purpose t…
gray areas are what make epic court cases. If it was cut and dried one side or the other would settle.
Re: Car Dealers Sue Tesla, Citing State Franchise Laws
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
Imagine that Ford only allows maintenance at company owned stores, because they don't sell replacement parts to dealers, then they charge $500 for a fan belt, etc.
Wait, how is this different from any consumer device that has a warranty? edit: e.g. let's say my apple laptop breaks, even if I could fix it or get it fixed by a third party for cheap, I have to take it to the apple store to not risk losing my warranty completely.
Well, many states have laws specifically for that: a car manufacturer's warranty cannot be cancelled just because the owner or someone the owner paid worked on the car.
The manufacturer's warranty can only be voided if the manufacturer can prove that the warranty claim arose directly due to the owner (or someone they paid). So if the owner changes their own oil and the rear bumper falls off? Warranty.
Re: Car Dealers Sue Tesla, Citing State Franchise Laws
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can go to McDonalds and order an Apple computer by calling 1-800-MY-APPLE. I can also do so by using McDonald's wireless. If I don't have a computer or phone I can go to the library and use theirs. Is McDonalds a Apple dealer because I can order an Apple from inside the restaurant? Is the city library an Apple dealer? If the argument is true that this location, which does not accept money or purchases, and which do…
Look, you can throw up all the theoretical scenarios that don't relate to the specific laws all you want, but it does not change this: does a car manufacture have a place displaying their car in which the car can be ordered. Apple is not party to any of the car franchise laws (there are no computer franchise laws) and McDonalds doesn't make cars. We are talking about a case relating to actual laws.
yep - down vote the truth when it doesn't fit with your desires
Re: Car Dealers Sue Tesla, Citing State Franchise Laws
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
Its easy to say that at the macro scale, but what are you suggesting car dealerships do on the micro scale? Learn how to build their own cars and sell them in defiance of the current laws on the contingency that the judge rules in Tesla's favor?
I would like to see emerge a car-buying agent. The agent would deal with all manufacturers and used car lots (still a need for this) and help the buyer get exactly what they want at the best price. However, there will always be some new car retailers because some people like to buy new cars in person and drive them immediately. I think the standards for sales staff will continue to change away from the old commission…
Such agents are common in the US, they are called "brokers". Brokers are especially good in negotiating with multiple dealers, and getting the exact car you want from the dealer with the lowest price by getting dealers to swap cars. Service can be very good; brokers will pick up the car from the dealer, truck it to you, and take away your old car. Brokers customarily arrange whatever financing the buyer wants. Brokers work around the stupid franchising laws by arranging the actual sale paperwork to be from the chosen dealer to the car buyer, with the broker collecting a commission. The nicest part of buying through an auto broker is that you never have to see or talk to a dealer salesperson.
Re: Car Dealers Sue Tesla, Citing State Franchise Laws
#110"FREE Butterball Turkey Certificate with every test drive!"
I got this ad in the mail today from a local Jeep dealer. Dealers clearly have no clue. Could you ever imagine Tesla thinking up such a dumb promotion?