Car Dealers Sue Tesla, Citing State Franchise Laws • Hacker News Board

Re: Car Dealers Sue Tesla, Citing State Franchise Laws

#31

Post by Herring » Sat, Nov 10, 2012, 2:52 PM UTC

protomyth wrote: post #21

It is basically the same type of law that kept studios from owning movie theaters. Separating producers from local sales was a big thing. We can say it is a crap law but there were some very real worries and reasons that lead to it in many industries. Expect if the law is overturned that all the manufactures will replace local dealers with their own showrooms. This isn't about stopping innovation, it's about accumula…

>Separating producers from local sales was a big thing.

That sounds interesting. I'm curious why.

Re: Car Dealers Sue Tesla, Citing State Franchise Laws

#32

Post by njharman » Sat, Nov 10, 2012, 2:52 PM UTC

mmariani wrote: post #15

dade_ wrote: post #8

The NPR story doesn't seem correct, at least according to my understanding that Tesla show room locations do not sell cars, only provide information about them. A car dealership is a business/location that sells cars, and Elon's argument is that a Telsa store does not sell cars and is therefore not a dealership. Sounds like defensible logic against the franchise lobby-law to me, but according to the NPR story a Tesla…

> ...Tesla show room locations do not sell cars, only provide information about them. Now how much would you bet that this argument will win this case for Tesla?

Depends if jury believes putting down deposit is "buying" or not.

Re: Car Dealers Sue Tesla, Citing State Franchise Laws

#33

Post by cloverich » Sat, Nov 10, 2012, 3:03 PM UTC

datalus wrote: post #6

manaskarekar wrote: post #4

This just sounds like desperate clawing of a doomed business model to me.

It certainly is, quote from the article: "Let's say consumers really liked buying from a factory store. That would put dealers in a tough spot because they've been saying for years that the franchise system is actually good for customers," [Jeremy Anwyl] says. I think he hit the nail on the head. I would say the franchise system is only good for the franchise owners, not the customers.

Has anyone ever had a good experience at a car dealership?

I remember getting my first car when I was 16. I was so excited, I drove the thing home and didn't realize the car mats weren't in it. I called the next day: "Sorry sir, Car mats don't come with used Vehicles. We do sell them though ($350!!!)"

The thought of car dealerships going out of business and being replaced by a better business model feels nearly too good to be true. Here's hoping its not!

Re: Car Dealers Sue Tesla, Citing State Franchise Laws

#34

Post by andrewtbham » Sat, Nov 10, 2012, 3:03 PM UTC

protomyth wrote: post #21

It is basically the same type of law that kept studios from owning movie theaters. Separating producers from local sales was a big thing. We can say it is a crap law but there were some very real worries and reasons that lead to it in many industries. Expect if the law is overturned that all the manufactures will replace local dealers with their own showrooms. This isn't about stopping innovation, it's about accumula…

The movie studio/theater breakup was an anti-trust case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Paramount_Pict....

btw, there is a bug the hn code... add a period at the end of the url to see the link

Re: Car Dealers Sue Tesla, Citing State Franchise Laws

#35

Post by delinka » Sat, Nov 10, 2012, 3:03 PM UTC

archildress wrote: post #25

"Tesla is choosing to ignore the law and then is choosing to play outside that system." Is there a statement more indicative of the fear of innovation in archaic industries? Let's hope that laws like this begin to vanish and clear the way for innovation. If they don't, I'm sure Mr. Musk will find a workaround. They could essentially setup their retailing operation as a separate legal entity and work around this. And…

"Separate legal entity" isn't quite enough. It also can't be owned by the manufacturer.

Re: Car Dealers Sue Tesla, Citing State Franchise Laws

#36

Post by gpcz » Sat, Nov 10, 2012, 3:05 PM UTC

reinhardt wrote: post #22

gpcz wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its easy to say that at the macro scale, but what are you suggesting car dealerships do on the micro scale? Learn how to build their own cars and sell them in defiance of the current laws on the contingency that the judge rules in Tesla's favor?

No, go out of business and look for a real job.

If the only choice for dealerships in the classic phrase "innovate or die" is to die, why even say that the dealership industry needs to innovate?

Re: Car Dealers Sue Tesla, Citing State Franchise Laws

#37

Post by mrdodge » Sat, Nov 10, 2012, 3:06 PM UTC

jasonlotito wrote: post #23

nickesh_23 wrote: post #16

What a dumb law. I wish I had a dollar for everytime the government tried to stop progress to protect big, archaic businesses (über, sidecar, lyft, Airbnb, you're with me on this one). Anyone smell corruption brewing? Think about it. How can a government own a car company then legislate against other car companies? I know it's federal gov buying and local gov ruling in this example, but it's a slippery slope nonethel…

By big, archaic businesses you are talking about local car dealerships, right?

Car dealerships are big business, many of the big new car dealerships are owned by Fortune 500s like Sonic Automotive and Penske Automotive Group.

Re: Car Dealers Sue Tesla, Citing State Franchise Laws

#38

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Nov 10, 2012, 3:07 PM UTC

andrewtbham wrote: post #34

protomyth wrote: post #21

It is basically the same type of law that kept studios from owning movie theaters. Separating producers from local sales was a big thing. We can say it is a crap law but there were some very real worries and reasons that lead to it in many industries. Expect if the law is overturned that all the manufactures will replace local dealers with their own showrooms. This isn't about stopping innovation, it's about accumula…

The movie studio/theater breakup was an anti-trust case. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Paramount_Pict... . btw, there is a bug the hn code... add a period at the end of the url to see the link

[deleted]

Re: Car Dealers Sue Tesla, Citing State Franchise Laws

#39

Post by jasonwocky » Sat, Nov 10, 2012, 3:08 PM UTC

reinhardt wrote: post #22

gpcz wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its easy to say that at the macro scale, but what are you suggesting car dealerships do on the micro scale? Learn how to build their own cars and sell them in defiance of the current laws on the contingency that the judge rules in Tesla's favor?

No, go out of business and look for a real job.

Far more profitable to pool lobbying efforts with others in the same boat as you.

Re: Car Dealers Sue Tesla, Citing State Franchise Laws

#40

Post by reeses » Sat, Nov 10, 2012, 3:11 PM UTC

reinhardt wrote: post #22

gpcz wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its easy to say that at the macro scale, but what are you suggesting car dealerships do on the micro scale? Learn how to build their own cars and sell them in defiance of the current laws on the contingency that the judge rules in Tesla's favor?

No, go out of business and look for a real job.

The auto industry (in the USA at least) has a huge negative reputation for unethical conduct by the dealerships, especially in sales and service (for which they are claiming protection). It's going to be exceedingly difficult to find sympathetic jurors.