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I won't download your app. The web version is a-ok

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Re: I won't download your app. The web version is a-ok

#451

Post by Tangurena2 »

tuckerman wrote: post #70

The site that irks me the most here is New York Times. Opening an article in the mobile browser often has a toast over the bottom third of the article to open it in their app for "a better experience". I struggle to think how nytimes isn't a perfect fit for a site over an app. The only frustrating experience I have with the web version that would be better in the app is not seeing that that pop-up.

An HN post from last month discussed some of this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47390945

NYT is one of the worst offenders.

Re: I won't download your app. The web version is a-ok

#452

Post by palata »

leptons wrote: post #370
palata wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Web browser is a sandbox by default. So I take this is a security concern. How do you feel about the fact that when you open a webapp in your browser, you re-download that app code every time? That the server can send you a backdoor every single time, made just for you, and nobody else will ever know? And that you can't check the "hash" of the webapp, like you can with an app? On the other hand, an app is sandboxed…

>That the server can send you a backdoor every single time, made just for you, and nobody else will ever know? There is no "backdoor" when the browser is sandboxed. "backdoor" is a specific thing, I think you need to read up on it before you keep using it incorrectly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backdoor_(computing) >On the other hand, an app is sandboxed, too (on mobile OSes like Android and iOS). When you downloa…

Dude, I was here to talk about security, not to be judged on the quality of my English. What I get from your take is that your English is better than mine, but not your security knowledge.

> That isn't what "sandboxed" means, it has nothing to do with checking hashes.

I didn't say it had anything to do with it. I meant that NOT ONLY it is sandboxed, but ON TOP OF THAT you can check that you received the same code.

> You keep referring to "backdoor", and I don't think you really know what that means.

The only explanation I see for you not understanding what I mean by "backdoor" for the end-to-end encryption is that you have no idea how it works. If you're just being condescending about my language, go for it. Tell me I can't speak your language. But don't tell me I don't understand security, you have absolutely no idea what I know.

> Protonmail sending a "web page" that "leaks your key"? WTF?

You obviously don't understand how it works if this surprises you. I would gladly elaborate with anyone who is not a jerk, but that does not seem to be the case here.

Re: I won't download your app. The web version is a-ok

#453

Post by kelvinjps10 »

pnexk wrote: post #289
nkrisc wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But today, the very first touchpoint with "the internet" for younger folks is a smartphone display. The even do homework on this small screens! I saw a tweet recently that perfectly encapsulates this: for most people over 30, certain things are "big screen tasks". I use my phone for a lot, but for some things I put the phone down and use my computer instead. I am most comfortable using a large screen and a keyboard…

It is also the case that PCs are still more expensive than phones. Had a work colleague in one of my first customer facing service jobs who relied almost completely on an android phone to get everything done from mortgage applications to entertainment before I gifted them one of my lesser used laptops.

high end phones are 1k, you can buy a used thinkpad for 200$ or a chromebook for 500$ or now the macbook neo for 600$. Well it's also that the phone you need it so the laptop/pc it's an aditional cost

Re: I won't download your app. The web version is a-ok

#454

Post by t-3 »

bryankaplan wrote: post #284
moring wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that logic, operating system developers struggle to understand that putting two files with the same name into the same folder(1) is very much possible in the physical world. (1) or referencing them from the same directory, which was the earlier metaphor.

Hardly. That would be analogous to two people having the same name _and_ the same spacetime coordinates; they would indeed be the same person.

I've seen two people with the same name and birthday, in different departments of the same building. Caused regular problems with management and HR.

I've also seen two different customers with the same name and phone number - the number got recycled and went to second one while the first hadn't updated their number on file. We had to tell them apart by address.

Re: I won't download your app. The web version is a-ok

#455

Post by palata »

AlBugdy wrote: post #430
palata wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Web browser is a sandbox by default. So I take this is a security concern. How do you feel about the fact that when you open a webapp in your browser, you re-download that app code every time? That the server can send you a backdoor every single time, made just for you, and nobody else will ever know? And that you can't check the "hash" of the webapp, like you can with an app? On the other hand, an app is sandboxed…

> And that you can't check the "hash" of the webapp, like you can with an app? Can someone reading this make an addon for this?

Meta and Cloudflare did something like that for WhatsApp Web, there is a nice blog post about it here: https://blog.cloudflare.com/key-transparency/

Now it only ensures that Cloudflare doesn't tamper with the WhatsApp Web code they serve, you still have to trust Meta.

I feel like reaching the same level as "checking the hash for the app" would be very hard in practice. I.e. the web is not built around doing that. Your extension would have to scan all the files you download when you reach a page, somehow make a hash of it, somehow compare it to... something, but then make the difference between "tampered with" and "just a normal update".

Also you just can't "download the sources, audit them and compile them yourself" with a webapp. If you do that, it's just "an app built with web tech", like Electron, I guess?

Re: I won't download your app. The web version is a-ok

#456

Post by Groxx »

t-3 wrote: post #450
encom wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the first time I've heard someone say a smartphone reduces distractions. As a millennial boomer, I prefer my triple monitor setup and mechanical keyboard, not to mention network- and client-level content blockers, whenever I have to input more than a sentence. I was at a conference last week, and I took notes in a fullscreened GNU Nano. Distractions, ADHD, etc. Did get some odd looks, but I couldn't imagine t…

I don't have any social apps or games on my phone. Other than the web browser there's nothing to distract me. I find it so easy to get caught up in checking the news or email or the episode of that show I was watching on my laptop, but I don't do any of those things habitually on my phone or tablet or reader so that's my "distraction free" device. That's only for reading though! For taking notes I go with a real keyb…

similar here, I'm gradually removing more and more things from my phone. at this point it's mostly just a couple actually-important apps, a web browser, and messaging apps (because it's clearly superior to whipping out a laptop for brief things). "social" outside messaging is in the web browser or not on the phone at all. if I want to focus I just turn on Do Not Disturb for an hour.

browsing is slowly reducing as time goes on too, as while it's convenient on my phone, it's rarely efficient. it doesn't take long at all before I'd rather pull out a laptop and finish more quickly.

Re: I won't download your app. The web version is a-ok

#457

Post by Zak »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #418
qubitcoder wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's where Reduce Interruptions on the iPhone (or Do Not Disturb) comes in handy.

That's not just interruptions. It's the notifications bar itself. I noticed this only recently - I switched the default phone launcher to a scifi theme built on Total Launcher (there's legit personal research project reasons behind that, it's not just to look cool!) and after few days (and a bunch of missed messages), I realized my life seems suspiciously light in interruptions and random events. It took me a few mor…

Android modes provide control over notification display.

Modes control which people and apps can trigger a sound/vibration, but also offer the option to hide the silenced notifications from the status bar, pull-down shade, and dots on app icons. I hide them from the status bar, but not the pull-down shade so that I can manually check if I want to, but don't see them at a glance.

I'm not a heavy user of this feature though; I mostly don't install apps that have spammy notifications.

Re: I won't download your app. The web version is a-ok

#458

Post by forgotusername6 »

leros wrote: post #406
abustamam wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is silly but you have to meet customers where they are. I think the problem is also that PWAs don't have any discoverability, and no standardization. I did some consulting work for a company that had a PWA. They had a 200-line long react component that was intended to determine what modal to show the user depending on what web browser and OS they were using to instruct them how to install PWA depending on the comb…

Yeah, I had a lengthy customer service email template explaining how to install the PWA for when people asked about a mobile app. Almost nobody installed it.

There's an install element in the works. Perhaps that will make it more obvious how to install it https://github.com/WICG/install-element?tab=readme-ov-file

Re: I won't download your app. The web version is a-ok

#459

Post by TeMPOraL »

Zak wrote: post #457
TeMPOraL wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not just interruptions. It's the notifications bar itself. I noticed this only recently - I switched the default phone launcher to a scifi theme built on Total Launcher (there's legit personal research project reasons behind that, it's not just to look cool!) and after few days (and a bunch of missed messages), I realized my life seems suspiciously light in interruptions and random events. It took me a few mor…

Android modes provide control over notification display. Modes control which people and apps can trigger a sound/vibration, but also offer the option to hide the silenced notifications from the status bar, pull-down shade, and dots on app icons. I hide them from the status bar, but not the pull-down shade so that I can manually check if I want to, but don't see them at a glance. I'm not a heavy user of this feature t…

Right. I'm saying that living for a week without any notification bar at all made me realize that even my usual well-curated notification bar is impacting me much more than I realized.

Re: I won't download your app. The web version is a-ok

#460

Post by InexSquirrel »

nkrisc wrote: post #131
KellyCriterion wrote: post #49

What most people dont get: Most of folks on HN here are much older than todays "first customers" of 16y/17/18 For them: The "Smartphone is the internet", while for most of us the "Smartphone is an extension of the internet from our desktops" that we were used to (remember the years before dot com bubble, saying: "I will be down in the basement at the computer to surf on the net little bit" ? :-) But today, the very f…

> But today, the very first touchpoint with "the internet" for younger folks is a smartphone display. The even do homework on this small screens! I saw a tweet recently that perfectly encapsulates this: for most people over 30, certain things are "big screen tasks". I use my phone for a lot, but for some things I put the phone down and use my computer instead. I am most comfortable using a large screen and a keyboard…

I think it's easier for kids to get hold of a phone at a younger age and become accustomed to it, and don't realise the jank / frustration it introduces when doing certain tasks.

I become unreasonably frustrated when having to search for things on the phone. Buying stuff online is a 'big screen task' not because of the security aspect, but because of needing to compare multiple products, which involve jumping between tabs. I can do that via shift/ctrl-tab, clicking, alt-tab etc - basically a single click. On the phone it's at least 3, and a genuinely grating experience saying nothing of having to copy and paste text for searching.

That said I've come across people that don't know basic copy and paste shortcuts / basic PC literacy, so for those I can see how the phone would feel no less efficient.

I think as kids get older, and their tasks require more digital complexity to complete, they'll slowly migrate towards laptops and larger screen devices (maybe including tablets, maybe not). Basic surfing etc is fine, but there is no way I want to be using even a spreadsheet on a phone - it's a miserable experience - saying nothing of something with genuine complexity like Blender.

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