France pulls last gold held in US • Hacker News Board

Re: France pulls last gold held in US

#271

Post by conorcleary » Mon, Apr 06, 2026, 5:30 PM UTC

Galanwe wrote: post #264

cladopa wrote: post #25

This is not gain at all. At least in theory: You own some tons of gold at the start of the process, you have the same tons of gold at the end of the process. The only real gain is that you have gold in the US custody and the US can be tempted to just use it without telling you anything. In other words, you had "paper gold" or "virtual gold" that the US can confiscate anytime, for example after invading Greenland, bla…

> This is not gain at all. At least in theory: You own some tons of gold at the start of the process, you have the same tons of gold at the end of the process. I see a lot of comments like this but I just can't get my head around what you are trying to prove (or disprove). Every definition of gain (or loss for that matter) implies that the same amount of _something_ is now worth more (or less) than when you bought it…

but you sold it...

(I know share rehypothication exists, but it shouldn't)

Re: France pulls last gold held in US

#272

Post by Reason077 » Mon, Apr 06, 2026, 5:30 PM UTC

kipchak wrote: post #200

rdtsc wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> trade, then French Navy picked those gold bullions from NY I couldn’t find any clear news source or academic reference to that event. I see a lot of references on gold buying/selling sites mostly. I would imagine a Fench Navy ship docked NY and loading tons of gold would make quite a stir.

I seem to be having more luck with French language sources, mostly the Bank of France records. From what I can tell the shipping was done mostly commercially with some later by air[1]. Reportedly De Gaulle was frustrated with the speed of change wanted to use the Colbert warship but was dissuaded by the minister of finance.[2] [1] https://archives-historiques.banque-france.fr/ark:/56433/115... [2] https://www.lesecho…

Gold is routinely transported across the Atlantic (and the world) by air today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRt_Ld5vtHI

Re: France pulls last gold held in US

#273

Post by regnull » Mon, Apr 06, 2026, 5:59 PM UTC

kccqzy wrote: post #235

u1hcw9nx wrote: post #105

>However, an operation to repatriate its gold holdings began in the 1960s leading up to the US termination of the Bretton Woods system, which effectively stopped foreign governments from exchanging dollars for gold. French-US monetary history after WWII: Under the Bretton Woods agreement (1944-1971), the US dollar was the world’s reserve currency, and it was pegged to gold at $35 per ounce. Other countries pegged the…

You seem to imply that Charles de Gaulle and his policy of converting dollars to gold caused the collapse of the Bretton Woods system. That was a myopic view. The whole Bretton Woods system was doomed from the beginning due to design defects. The system was conceived with the primary goal of maintaining balance of payments equilibrium for all countries at the expense of economic growth and liquidity. It had become cl…

Ok, bear with me for a moment - what if the US would use actual physical gold coins instead of dollars? Then your argument of "gold would flow out" would not hold - so the only reason for it to flow out was that the gold standard was fake - the lax money policy of the US was the issue, not the gold standard itself.

Re: France pulls last gold held in US

#274

Post by doctorpangloss » Mon, Apr 06, 2026, 6:00 PM UTC

kccqzy wrote: post #235

u1hcw9nx wrote: post #105

>However, an operation to repatriate its gold holdings began in the 1960s leading up to the US termination of the Bretton Woods system, which effectively stopped foreign governments from exchanging dollars for gold. French-US monetary history after WWII: Under the Bretton Woods agreement (1944-1971), the US dollar was the world’s reserve currency, and it was pegged to gold at $35 per ounce. Other countries pegged the…

You seem to imply that Charles de Gaulle and his policy of converting dollars to gold caused the collapse of the Bretton Woods system. That was a myopic view. The whole Bretton Woods system was doomed from the beginning due to design defects. The system was conceived with the primary goal of maintaining balance of payments equilibrium for all countries at the expense of economic growth and liquidity. It had become cl…

I agree with you that Bretton Woods was doomed from the beginning, both Keynes and Friedman said so, and this should be a better known POV. Economists are not historians though, and historians write human-driven stories (i.e., it was Nixon who ended Bretton Woods, it's not that it was going to inevitably collapse as an econometric question).

All that said, Bretton Woods matters because people look at the gold standard as a time when wages in the United States rose. Like that's why Bernie Bros on HN care. It's the same reason they oppose globalization: me me me. So it's worth knowing why it was flawed. They don't comprehend that before and after Bretton Woods, hourly wage charts measured a fundamentally different thing.

I think it's better to attack the charts - I mean, you're responding to a Charts Guy, a guy who's like, look at this Gold Denominated Chart guy - because that's what their brains work on. Don't worry about economics. These guys are not economists. They are Charts. The real attack on their worldview is that, well, just because the year in the X axis is an increasing, doesn't mean that you can compare a bigger year to a smaller year. They would really like the world to be ordered that way, but it's not, and taking leadership on convincing them of that is very hard.

Re: France pulls last gold held in US

#275

Post by Galanwe » Mon, Apr 06, 2026, 6:04 PM UTC

conorcleary wrote: post #271

Galanwe wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is not gain at all. At least in theory: You own some tons of gold at the start of the process, you have the same tons of gold at the end of the process. I see a lot of comments like this but I just can't get my head around what you are trying to prove (or disprove). Every definition of gain (or loss for that matter) implies that the same amount of _something_ is now worth more (or less) than when you bought it…

but you sold it... (I know share rehypothication exists, but it shouldn't)

Even if you rebuy it at $100 it's the same, your profit didn't change, you just exchanged cash for an asset.

Before you sold it you had unrealized gains, after you sold it you had realized gains, after you bought it again you have the same gains but materialized as shares.

Re: France pulls last gold held in US

#276

Post by hackerbeat » Mon, Apr 06, 2026, 6:20 PM UTC

Good. The US is not to be trusted anymore.

Re: France pulls last gold held in US

#277

Post by slopinthebag » Mon, Apr 06, 2026, 6:22 PM UTC

doctorpangloss wrote: post #274

kccqzy wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to imply that Charles de Gaulle and his policy of converting dollars to gold caused the collapse of the Bretton Woods system. That was a myopic view. The whole Bretton Woods system was doomed from the beginning due to design defects. The system was conceived with the primary goal of maintaining balance of payments equilibrium for all countries at the expense of economic growth and liquidity. It had become cl…

I agree with you that Bretton Woods was doomed from the beginning, both Keynes and Friedman said so, and this should be a better known POV. Economists are not historians though, and historians write human-driven stories (i.e., it was Nixon who ended Bretton Woods, it's not that it was going to inevitably collapse as an econometric question). All that said, Bretton Woods matters because people look at the gold standar…

The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.

Re: France pulls last gold held in US

#278

Post by cyberax » Mon, Apr 06, 2026, 6:23 PM UTC

regnull wrote: post #273

kccqzy wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to imply that Charles de Gaulle and his policy of converting dollars to gold caused the collapse of the Bretton Woods system. That was a myopic view. The whole Bretton Woods system was doomed from the beginning due to design defects. The system was conceived with the primary goal of maintaining balance of payments equilibrium for all countries at the expense of economic growth and liquidity. It had become cl…

Ok, bear with me for a moment - what if the US would use actual physical gold coins instead of dollars? Then your argument of "gold would flow out" would not hold - so the only reason for it to flow out was that the gold standard was fake - the lax money policy of the US was the issue, not the gold standard itself.

> Ok, bear with me for a moment - what if the US would use actual physical gold coins instead of dollars?

You'll get a bear economy, leading to the eventual deflation and collapse.

Fun fact: it was not hyperinflation in Weimar Germany that led Hitler to power but _deflation_ because of its insistence on sticking to the gold standard.

Re: France pulls last gold held in US

#279

Post by doctorpangloss » Mon, Apr 06, 2026, 6:32 PM UTC

slopinthebag wrote: post #277

doctorpangloss wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you that Bretton Woods was doomed from the beginning, both Keynes and Friedman said so, and this should be a better known POV. Economists are not historians though, and historians write human-driven stories (i.e., it was Nixon who ended Bretton Woods, it's not that it was going to inevitably collapse as an econometric question). All that said, Bretton Woods matters because people look at the gold standar…

The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.

government policy definitely has the greatest power to create (or destroy) wealth, there are a lot of things wrong with economic policy in this country, but floating currency exchange is not one of those problems.

Re: France pulls last gold held in US

#280

Post by rdtsc » Mon, Apr 06, 2026, 6:44 PM UTC

JackFr wrote: post #251

rdtsc wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> trade, then French Navy picked those gold bullions from NY I couldn’t find any clear news source or academic reference to that event. I see a lot of references on gold buying/selling sites mostly. I would imagine a Fench Navy ship docked NY and loading tons of gold would make quite a stir.

One armored car can carry a ton of gold. If they left and drove to the closest US Navy port, where the French ship would dock. it wouldn't raise eyebrows.

It’s just that they repatriated close to 3000 tons. That’s one long convoy of armored cars, all going to a French warship docked in New York.

Based on some sibling discussion it seems it just never happened. It was multiple shipments, over many years, going over commercial liners. It may have well been armored trucks but they just didn’t all do it at once. It worked well that it didn’t create much of a media uproar.