Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Chinese government blocks Google.com, Gmail, Google+, Maps, Docs and more

thenextweb.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 106 posts

Re: Chinese government blocks Google.com, Gmail, Google+, Maps, Docs and more

#71

Post by seanmcdirmid »

nickpinkston wrote: post #69
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bizarre thing is that its a much freerer society than even the states in some ways. The police don't really bother you unless the situation becomes "visible," lots of sketchy things happen out in the open. You don't have to wear a helmet when cycling, etc...

Yea, I felt the same way - it's almost libertarian in some ways. I felt far less paranoid around their police / security people because it seemed like their default position wasn't: hassle. Though to be honest, the police in the states aren't really hard to beat - what culture of BS that is...

I've heard of some "situations" involving raves and outdoor parties where weed was involved, but in each case the foreigners get a free pass while the Chinese get to spend all night in a police station getting drug tests. Anyways, we will never be Chinese and won't see the real China.

Re: Chinese government blocks Google.com, Gmail, Google+, Maps, Docs and more

#72

Post by Hermitian »

mtgx wrote: post #2

It seems they want to make an example out of Google: "If you disagree with our censorship, this is what will happen to you, too", and create chilling effects for any other company who's considering being "moral" in China. I wonder if Obama will do this to China, too: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/11/us-imposes-sancti...

The Chinese government is going through a transition period at the moment, so much is undecided. But it is unfortunate (especially being Chinese) that the central government is becoming more conservative overtime (politically conservative, fiscally liberal). I do hope that this is just a phase rather than something persistent.

With regard to foreign policy, the US had been playing a very interesting game of hard-soft combination. Obama and the executive committee had been relatively soft on the Chinese government. At the same time, the US representatives to WTO and other trade organization had been pretty persistent. I don't know how things will turn out, but I am pretty certain that the US government will not impose sanction on China. That is a foolish move giving the trade and the status of China in the global market.

Re: Chinese government blocks Google.com, Gmail, Google+, Maps, Docs and more

#73

Post by olalonde »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #64
nickpinkston wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds about right - pretty wild. What else surprised me was the strobe light / camera systems at the chokes points to cities / neighborhoods. Overall, I don't think China seemed that bad - not like military with AKs everywhere, but this stuff was quite interesting to see first hand.

The bizarre thing is that its a much freerer society than even the states in some ways. The police don't really bother you unless the situation becomes "visible," lots of sketchy things happen out in the open. You don't have to wear a helmet when cycling, etc...

You can drink beers in the street, nightclubs and bars don't have a closing time, policemen are not armed, there is no law about where you can or cannot smoke, it's ridiculously easy to get a visa and stay in China as long as you want. You will never ever get a fine in China for a civil offense (not wearing a seatbelt, spitting on the floor, peeing in public, crossing the street on a red light, etc.). At worse, you are going to get a friendly warning. Traffic policemen are not allowed to chase speeding cars. They will rely on license plates and CCTV cameras instead.

China is surprisingly more free than many western countries as long as you don't step into political territory. Being a foreigner also helps a lot. Some people might argue that those freedoms seem anodin compared to freedom of speech or political freedom but in many ways, those things have a bigger impact on your everyday life than the latter freedoms. If you're libertarian leaning like me, you'll probably like China.

Re: Chinese government blocks Google.com, Gmail, Google+, Maps, Docs and more

#74

Post by olalonde »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #71
nickpinkston wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, I felt the same way - it's almost libertarian in some ways. I felt far less paranoid around their police / security people because it seemed like their default position wasn't: hassle. Though to be honest, the police in the states aren't really hard to beat - what culture of BS that is...

I've heard of some "situations" involving raves and outdoor parties where weed was involved, but in each case the foreigners get a free pass while the Chinese get to spend all night in a police station getting drug tests. Anyways, we will never be Chinese and won't see the real China.

I actually heard that regular policemen in China couldn't recognize the smell of marijuana.

Re: Chinese government blocks Google.com, Gmail, Google+, Maps, Docs and more

#75

Post by ern »

olalonde wrote: post #73
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bizarre thing is that its a much freerer society than even the states in some ways. The police don't really bother you unless the situation becomes "visible," lots of sketchy things happen out in the open. You don't have to wear a helmet when cycling, etc...

You can drink beers in the street, nightclubs and bars don't have a closing time, policemen are not armed, there is no law about where you can or cannot smoke, it's ridiculously easy to get a visa and stay in China as long as you want. You will never ever get a fine in China for a civil offense (not wearing a seatbelt, spitting on the floor, peeing in public, crossing the street on a red light, etc.). At worse, you a…

What would happen if a law was passed banning smoking in a particular area? Would ordinary Chinese be able to object to it, would they be able to petition the legislature that passed the law without fear of reprisal? What if your kid's school adopted something in the curriculum that you found objectionable - could you complain without fear? I am not being snarky, I really am curious about how bright the line is between the political forbidden territory and uncontroversial.

Re: Chinese government blocks Google.com, Gmail, Google+, Maps, Docs and more

#76

Post by olalonde »

ern wrote: post #75
olalonde wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can drink beers in the street, nightclubs and bars don't have a closing time, policemen are not armed, there is no law about where you can or cannot smoke, it's ridiculously easy to get a visa and stay in China as long as you want. You will never ever get a fine in China for a civil offense (not wearing a seatbelt, spitting on the floor, peeing in public, crossing the street on a red light, etc.). At worse, you a…

What would happen if a law was passed banning smoking in a particular area? Would ordinary Chinese be able to object to it, would they be able to petition the legislature that passed the law without fear of reprisal? What if your kid's school adopted something in the curriculum that you found objectionable - could you complain without fear? I am not being snarky, I really am curious about how bright the line is betwe…

> What would happen if a law was passed banning smoking in a particular area? Would ordinary Chinese be able to object to it, would they be able to petition the legislature that passed the law without fear of reprisal?

In general, the central government tries to maintain a good popular opinion so complaining does work in some ways. It's also fairly straightforward to join the party if you are really into politics. I believe you are relatively safe from reprisal as long as you complain about a specific policy, not the actual party.

When people are unhappy about something, the party's modus operandi is to blame local government or corruption and fix whatever is making them unhappy. The nice thing about the party is that it is highly decentralized making it easier to back off without losing face or perceived authority.

In the case of Internet censorship, it doesn't affect 99.9% of Chinese so there isn't much people complaining about it. Most Chinese don't have a clue what Google Maps or Gmail is. The prevalent websites here are Baidu for search, Baidu maps for maps and Yahoo for email. Would the average Joe in the US complain about Baidu or Youku being blocked by the government?

> What if your kid's school adopted something in the curriculum that you found objectionable - could you complain without fear?

I'm not sure who sets the curriculum and whether you could successfully get it changed. I believe it would be easier in that case to send your kids to a private school.

Personally, I feel China is freer than the US or Canada in ways that have a more noticeable impact on my life. Then again, I would probably be more concerned about freedom of speech and political freedom if I couldn't leave China as easily I can right now.

Re: Chinese government blocks Google.com, Gmail, Google+, Maps, Docs and more

#77

Post by mlvljr »

squid_ca wrote: post #41
dak1 wrote: post #11

If I had to wager a guess, I'd say this is probably due to the 18th Party Congress going on in Beijing right now, and that the block will be lifted sometime in the next week, once the transfer of power is over. I think we may see some more moderates come to power, so I wouldn't expect this to continue. Whether or not Wang Yang gets a seat in the Standing Committee will be a good bellwether though.

Moderate fascists are still fascists.

And always opposing the commies, yes :)

Re: Chinese government blocks Google.com, Gmail, Google+, Maps, Docs and more

#78

Post by Volpe »

gurkendoktor wrote: post #47
Volpe wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that is your qualification for a dictatorship, then the U.S falls in that category as well. See WikiLeaks, and Assange.

Downvoted, because "X happens in every dictatorship" does not mean "every place where X happens is a dictatorship", and also because I think there is a noticeable difference between Gmail and Wikileaks (even though I supported the latter).

Government doesn't want X to be said about it, and thus pressures/censors company Y to stop it.

(X = "Anti-Communist sentiment" or "War crimes") (Y = "Google" or "Visa, Mastercard, Amazon, Wikileaks... etc")

Not a huge noticeable difference.

The point I was trying to make, is everyone is quick to taint a discussion on china with words like "Dictatorship", when in fact, china isn't (You know they can vote!?), and all the 'evidence' of them being one are scenarios played out in all countries.

Re: Chinese government blocks Google.com, Gmail, Google+, Maps, Docs and more

#79

Post by Volpe »

anchoring wrote: post #61

Chinese people are not just Americans without good internet access... The Chinese propaganda/education/censorship system is set up to accommodate all levels of disbelief of propaganda - that's built in to the propaganda, too. So there is the official line, then there's the unofficial official line - which is generated by being pessimistic relative to the official line. If the official line is that 7 people died in a…

Great little rant, but provide some citation please. Which reporters are currently in re-education camps, and It's unheard of that an entire family is sent for re-education (unless the entire family committed a crime together), which makes me doubt most of what you've said.

Also which event are your referring to with the 70 (actually 7000) deaths?

It's funny you are railing against propaganda by writing propaganda, please inform your points with actual data.

Re: Chinese government blocks Google.com, Gmail, Google+, Maps, Docs and more

#80

Post by shimon_e »

ern wrote: post #75
olalonde wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can drink beers in the street, nightclubs and bars don't have a closing time, policemen are not armed, there is no law about where you can or cannot smoke, it's ridiculously easy to get a visa and stay in China as long as you want. You will never ever get a fine in China for a civil offense (not wearing a seatbelt, spitting on the floor, peeing in public, crossing the street on a red light, etc.). At worse, you a…

What would happen if a law was passed banning smoking in a particular area? Would ordinary Chinese be able to object to it, would they be able to petition the legislature that passed the law without fear of reprisal? What if your kid's school adopted something in the curriculum that you found objectionable - could you complain without fear? I am not being snarky, I really am curious about how bright the line is betwe…

It is already illegal on paper to smoke in many areas. Just like it is illegal to sell iPhone clones. Basically when the police are passing you, you stop smoking/selling fake iPhones...
Post reply on HN