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An open-source 240-antenna array to bounce signals off the Moon

moonrf.com

31–40 of 72 posts

Re: An open-source 240-antenna array to bounce signals off the Moon

#31
For context, the same phased-array transceiver technology is used in Starlink terminals, some of which have 1,280 active elements. Such a terminal can require as much as 150W to function.

It's also why pictures of modern naval vessels show flat panels instead of rotating parabolic antennas as in past decades. The panels contain advanced phased-array radars.

Re: An open-source 240-antenna array to bounce signals off the Moon

#32
post #3

Cool, how full array compares to the single antenna placed on Starlink satellite ?

If starlink were anywhere close to as far away as the moon, you would have a comparable antenna size. That's like bragging about how compact your zoom lens us while your buddy trying to get photos of the Martian canals.

Re: An open-source 240-antenna array to bounce signals off the Moon

#33
I don't think you should call something 'open source' until you've released the source, but other than that this is an extremely impressive project. HAM's have been doing EME since forever (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%E2%80%93Moon%E2%80%93Ear... ), it is a very neat trick.

It almost looks as if the EME bounce capability of this antenna is a fig leaf or an afterthought, my own 'applications' list would be a lot of things, but not that.

Re: An open-source 240-antenna array to bounce signals off the Moon

#34

Wild hardware flex for a garage project. Reverse-engineering the Pi 5's MIPI to push 5.6 Gbps from custom MASH sigma-delta ADCs to a Lattice ECP5 FPGA to the Raspberry Pi is serious engineering. The idea that the RF receiver looks like a "camera" to the Pi while the transmitter is a "display" is super creative. Getting a 1.5 kW, 240-antenna EME array for $2,499 is actually cheap for something like this. Their standal…

> Reverse-engineering the Pi 5's MIPI to push 5.6 Gbps from custom MASH sigma-delta ADCs to a Lattice ECP5 FPGA to the Raspberry Pi is serious engineering

Using video interfaces to transfer arbitrary data at high speeds is becoming a common trick for cheap boards with limited interfaces. Video inputs and outputs are generally highly mature and optimized to avoid dropping frames because everyone wants reliable video. Putting arbitrary data into video IO pipelines is a cheap way to get high speed IO through standard interfaces.

There is a cool project that uses cheap HDMI to USB capture devices for high speed data transfer out of cheap FPGA boards that have HDMI output [ https://github.com/steve-m/hsdaoh ]

In a perfect world, using PCIe directly would be a much better solution for a project like this. Having access to PCIe DMA support directly without relying on video IO peripherals is helpful for high speed ADC/DAC applications like this. It would also make the board more portable to other SBCs.

The ECP5-5G can do PCIe 2.0 x2 or PCIe 1.0 x4 which would provide around 8Gbps of data transfer. The problem is that the Raspberry Pi 5 only exposes a single PCIe lane to the user. The other 4 PCIe lanes of the Raspberry Pi 5 SoC are routed to the RP1 chip, which has the MIPI and CSI interfaces that are used in this project. So the data is going through a convoluted path instead of being connected to PCIe directly.

I would have to look at the details more closely, but even using the PCIe 2.0 x1 port (around 4 Gbps after overhead) on the Raspberry Pi would be close in bandwidth to the 5.6 Gbps number they give for their custom MIPI solution.

I think the Raspberry Pi 5 is a good first choice for most projects because it is widely support and has the largest community, but for a project like this the benefits of moving to a different SBC with PCIe 2.0 x2 would have been helpful. Keeping the project semi-independent of the SBC has a lot of benefits.

Re: An open-source 240-antenna array to bounce signals off the Moon

#36

> Power Supply: 12 V DC (≈1.5 kW peak) That's a lot of juice for 12VDC

There are PC style PSUs rated to up to 1.2kW for 110V and 2kW-ish for 220V outlets for use with crypto mining machines. They are available used way below kW rating for having little values outside of narrow relevant contexts

Re: An open-source 240-antenna array to bounce signals off the Moon

#38

I don't think you should call something 'open source' until you've released the source, but other than that this is an extremely impressive project. HAM's have been doing EME since forever ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%E2%80%93Moon%E2%80%93Ear... ), it is a very neat trick. It almost looks as if the EME bounce capability of this antenna is a fig leaf or an afterthought, my own 'applications' list would be a l…

the open-source licenses are listed at https://moonrf.com/updates/#faq

Re: An open-source 240-antenna array to bounce signals off the Moon

#40

Wild hardware flex for a garage project. Reverse-engineering the Pi 5's MIPI to push 5.6 Gbps from custom MASH sigma-delta ADCs to a Lattice ECP5 FPGA to the Raspberry Pi is serious engineering. The idea that the RF receiver looks like a "camera" to the Pi while the transmitter is a "display" is super creative. Getting a 1.5 kW, 240-antenna EME array for $2,499 is actually cheap for something like this. Their standal…

> Reverse-engineering the Pi 5's MIPI to push 5.6 Gbps from custom MASH sigma-delta ADCs to a Lattice ECP5 FPGA to the Raspberry Pi is serious engineering Using video interfaces to transfer arbitrary data at high speeds is becoming a common trick for cheap boards with limited interfaces. Video inputs and outputs are generally highly mature and optimized to avoid dropping frames because everyone wants reliable video.…

unfortunately the ECP5-5G FPGA (with the SERDES/PCIe option), costs way more than the ECP5 (without SERDES). The Pi-5's MIPI interfaces gives you 8 parallel LVDS lanes that can run at 640 MHz each which is manageable for a cheap FPGA.
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