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Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

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481–490 of 726 posts

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#481
The real reason for the “cartels” in the US is because of the cost of infrastructure versus the subscribers cost. Because the United States is so large there are only a few companies that can create the infrastructure required to service large area areas with fiber.

So companies that have the ability to lay down, fiber do so in necessary cooperation with other providers to create a large patchwork across the country. This means that network companies have to cooperate with each other to send traffic back-and-forth.

It’s not realistic or feasible to have the US government generate a fiber optic connectivity for the entirety of every household in the United States. In fact, the free market was the only realistic possible to deliver this.

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#482

Because Switzerland is the size of Maryland. Imagine pouring all federal resources into one cramped state. I thought spamming your own blog was not allowed here.

Australia was able to do the same. It had the same US crony capitalism where private companies didnt approve the national broadband fibre network so had to use ADSL for 10 more years but finally a different govt party implemented the fibre network.

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#483

The real reason for the “cartels” in the US is because of the cost of infrastructure versus the subscribers cost. Because the United States is so large there are only a few companies that can create the infrastructure required to service large area areas with fiber. So companies that have the ability to lay down, fiber do so in necessary cooperation with other providers to create a large patchwork across the country.…

"It’s not realistic or feasible to have the US government generate a fiber optic connectivity for the entirety of every household in the United States. In fact, the free market was the only realistic possible to deliver this."

Why? Other countries with similar population densities have done it. A bigger country should have an advantage due to economies of scale.

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#484

I live in a small town (~10k) in Hungary and we have 4Gbit fiber here

This is one of the benefits of living in Europe, which is relatively densely populated compared to places like the US.

Does New York, LA etc have 25 Gbit internet?

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#485
post #293

Most states in America ban municipal fiber. They saw EPB (Chattanooga) and said, no, we must make sure that doesn't ever happen again. That is how 'free' market is done in US, all the rules are to make sure the richest people become richer.

What happened on Chattanooga?

Resident here, it's great. EPB is the power company and internet provider. They run fiber anywhere they run power. They also have good customer service, local knowledgeable phone support, and inexpensive support services like installing ethernet drops for $50 each.

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#487

Another thing that I think Europeans often fail to take into consideration is scale. USA: 9,147,590 km^2 Switzerland: 41,295 km^2 That's a factor of 221.5 to 1.

Yes but if you compare urban areas (where 80% of people live in both continents) in US and Europe it's not massively different (Europe maybe 2-4 more dense depending on the country/city). Obviously you're not going to lay fibre to the last 1% of population in the US (for the most part).

As one of the last 1% of population with fiber, your take on population stats in the US is wildly off.

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#488

The real reason for the “cartels” in the US is because of the cost of infrastructure versus the subscribers cost. Because the United States is so large there are only a few companies that can create the infrastructure required to service large area areas with fiber. So companies that have the ability to lay down, fiber do so in necessary cooperation with other providers to create a large patchwork across the country.…

This is just pure nonsense. The only reason for "cartels" is regulatory capture.

Most of the cost of an ISP is the so-called "last mile". Depending on your locale this is usually either stringing up cables on existing telephone poles or digging trenches, typically in the setback area between the road and the sidewalk that you might maintain but you don't technically own (or the municipality maintains an easement on, it varies).

Once you go from the premises to a central POP, the costs basically go to zero (per install). Backhaul bandwidth for a residential ISP is incredibly cheap, even free with peering arrangements.

The point is that geography really doesn't matter. Wiring up a 10,000 homes in Phoenix, Zurich, Shanghai or Sydney is basically the same (normalized for labor costs). The US is very spread out due to geography. It doesn't matter. The links between towns are a small fraction of the cost and often covered by existing rights-of-way anyway (eg railroads). You compare that to a highly urbanized and concentrated population like Australia where urban density is very similar to many American towns and cities and you're dealing with a very similar cost structure.

Think about it this way: if geography was the issue and not, say, artificial barriers to prevent competition (including from municipal broadband), why would the ISP lobby spend so much moeny to make municipal broadband illegal (as they do in many states)? Or why would they formalize a monopoly into a contract with an "exclusivity" deal (ie franchise agreement)?

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#489

The real reason for the “cartels” in the US is because of the cost of infrastructure versus the subscribers cost. Because the United States is so large there are only a few companies that can create the infrastructure required to service large area areas with fiber. So companies that have the ability to lay down, fiber do so in necessary cooperation with other providers to create a large patchwork across the country.…

"It’s not realistic or feasible to have the US government generate a fiber optic connectivity for the entirety of every household in the United States. In fact, the free market was the only realistic possible to deliver this." Why? Other countries with similar population densities have done it. A bigger country should have an advantage due to economies of scale.

I think he means it's not economic viable to the companies, however as you can see the Swiss model was defined by politics.

Even though, I agree with you it's possible, in my city the internet only got better when a monopoly was broken, and a state company decide to work in a new infrastructure, all FTTH, now I pay less than 100BRL for 300/150Mbps with that price 10 years ago it was only possible ADSL connections (25Mbps).

Now every major provider do have FTTH infra with great prices.

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#490
post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is none of the “pure forms” are realistic outside of books. If your system needs absolute theoretical purity to work, then it's worthless. And that's true of both communism and free market.

I'm not sure this is true. What you're describing is the local optimum problem. Yes, the local optimum is better if you can't push through to a better one, of course. And heading merely 'towards' the better optimum often makes things immediately worse. But that doesn't make the better optima worthless, or ever-unreachable. It seems a bit like saying humans will never fly. It's a question of technology level, in the s…

Until you get a technology that makes people acting perfectly rationally, with perfect information and getting marginal cost equal to average cost[1], free market is never gonna work.

And until you get a technology that prevents leadership to be egoistic and corrupt, Communism is never going to work.

I'm not holding my breath for any of those tech to happen.

[1]: interestingly enough, such a condition is pretty much antithetical to capitalism as it requires capital to be free.

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