Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

marketwatch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 321 posts

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#131

Post by sdoering »

anal_reactor wrote: post #109
vkou wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I assume such situations occur often in Sweden where it's really awkward if you want to hang out with a crowd from lower social class because they know your earnings. You don't have to be in Sweden to have a pretty good idea within a few minutes of talking to someone, of what the ballpark for their earnings is. Your social class is written all over your face, your clothes, your manners, your manner of speaking, the…

> Your social class is written all over your face, your clothes, your manners, your manner of speaking, the company you keep, the hobbies you have, where and how you spend your time... This is not true for lots of software developers who grew up poor but got rich. I wear shitty clothes, live in the ghetto, my hobbies are video games, cycling, and porn, and when speaking I code-switch easily. If anything, it's the oth…

I grew up with a single dad that while having a good salary also had the mortgage to pay. So I was middle class, but never had the niceties my peers had.

I moved out before finishing school (I did finish living on my own) and working 40 - 60 hours next to school - while being officially below the poverty line. This went on during most of my university days.

When starting a job I had to live frugally, because it had a really shitty salary.

Nowadays I am in the top 5 - 2 percent of earners (depending on how you calculate/count.

I still wear regular clothes most of the time. I nearly never eat out. I spend on things people do not really see.

So yeah - I can relate. Especially when being socially thrown together with the kind of people you describe. 100% second this.

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#132

Post by amelius »

roenxi wrote: post #3

I'm not seeing how this matters, they were already doing that - the market is a big auction to work out the overlap between lowest salary employees will work for and the highest salary employers will offer. In that process employees also use data to figure out the highest salary that will be offered. The thing forcing employers to pay the salary they do is that if they offer less someone else will gazump them for the…

It's still a case of asymmetric information.

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#133

Post by tripledry »

kaashif wrote: post #108
Ferret7446 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was always the "winning game". Only problem is that's a lot of work. The more things change, the more they stay the same; if you want more money, work harder. People who don't want to work harder complain that other people make more money because they either don't understand or are in denial about the amount of work the people they envy put in. Yes there are exceptions. No pointing out exceptions won't help you,…

I don't pay my employees based on inputs like how hard they work, I pay based on outputs. Any other system of incentives would be insane. Things are different if you're e.g. a lawyer and have billable hours.

I get this, but also genuinely interested to know how to measure outputs. For me it's almost impossible to get it objectively right.

Maybe this doesn't apply to your case, but how would you measure outputs of say product development, or any data related project. Lot's of things don't have a good measure of output before the thing is done. Maybe your product / analysis improves profitability by 10x or maybe it was a flop and lost money.

Tangential, but I'm also seeing the quality of measures going down, with AI it seems that the number of [emails|code|analysis] produced is again a good measure.

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#134

Post by matwood »

kaashif wrote: post #108
Ferret7446 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was always the "winning game". Only problem is that's a lot of work. The more things change, the more they stay the same; if you want more money, work harder. People who don't want to work harder complain that other people make more money because they either don't understand or are in denial about the amount of work the people they envy put in. Yes there are exceptions. No pointing out exceptions won't help you,…

I don't pay my employees based on inputs like how hard they work, I pay based on outputs. Any other system of incentives would be insane. Things are different if you're e.g. a lawyer and have billable hours.

> I don't pay my employees based on inputs like how hard they work, I pay based on outputs.

It's crazy how many times I have to explain this to people, and it's usually when they ask me for a raise.

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#135

Post by Rover222 »

Unbeliever69 wrote: post #55
canpan wrote: post #8

I wonder if the winning game becomes your own boss and tiny companies. I want to do the jump, but lack of courage, good ideas, sales skills and a very good salary still holding me back (open for suggestions). But if the very good salary would go away, the scales tip instantly.

Probably not the answer you want to here but I'll share my perspective. Three years ago my wife and I sat down and optimized our finances so I could soft-retire and focus on a few of my life goals while simultaneously working on ways to generate income without the stress of being in the employ of others. It was tough work which mainly involved paying down a lot of debt so we can live more lean. We did a lot of optimi…

But how long until your wife replaces your job with AI?

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#136

Post by Terr_ »

hdgvhicv wrote: post #115
OptionOfT wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm filling out the form there. I genuinely don't know why I would ever generate a salary key so I can let someone know how much money I made. Also, to prevent them from sharing the information, you need to give them even more information. Disgusting that this is allowed.

American Express just canceled my wife’s card after 15 years because she didn’t fill in her salary data.

Hmmm, so if it's a low value and they leak it to employers, that could screw you in compensation for a future job... And if it's a high value, the credit card company might argue you were lying to them for a higher credit limit.

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#137

Post by boelboel »

anal_reactor wrote: post #109
vkou wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I assume such situations occur often in Sweden where it's really awkward if you want to hang out with a crowd from lower social class because they know your earnings. You don't have to be in Sweden to have a pretty good idea within a few minutes of talking to someone, of what the ballpark for their earnings is. Your social class is written all over your face, your clothes, your manners, your manner of speaking, the…

> Your social class is written all over your face, your clothes, your manners, your manner of speaking, the company you keep, the hobbies you have, where and how you spend your time... This is not true for lots of software developers who grew up poor but got rich. I wear shitty clothes, live in the ghetto, my hobbies are video games, cycling, and porn, and when speaking I code-switch easily. If anything, it's the oth…

Most software related jobs on their own aren't seen as a 'high class' professions. It's a job which got extremely lucrative recently. It's similar to someone who made lots of money from the gold rush. The fact you were poor growing up usually means you'll never be seen as high class at older age either (part of the reason why some of these tech billionaires seem frustrated?)

It's not always too difficult to tell if someone is a software engineer from their behaviour and interests alone.

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#138

Post by snayan »

kaashif wrote: post #103
Unbeliever69 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably not the answer you want to here but I'll share my perspective. Three years ago my wife and I sat down and optimized our finances so I could soft-retire and focus on a few of my life goals while simultaneously working on ways to generate income without the stress of being in the employ of others. It was tough work which mainly involved paying down a lot of debt so we can live more lean. We did a lot of optimi…

> In reality, it feels like we are financially better off than we were before. Are you financially better off or does it only feel that way? If you were actually better off, why mention feelings?

I think the heart of what they're getting at is that while on paper they are bringing in less income, they have gotten off the hedonistic treadmill, and as a result, quality of life per dollar has increased dramatically. They are less stressed about finances than they were prior, even though their income is lower.

Sentiment is an important barometer in this case.

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#139

Post by hackable_sand »

Gareth321 wrote: post #121
shrubby wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wonder what you'd do with your passion in a just world where everything of creativity (okay almost) would not need to be turned into a income. I feel this fucking form of slavery as well hard. How sorry can life be?

We live in a world where someone has to clean the sewers, unblock toilets, maintain electricity lines in snow storms, weld deep underwater, clean, wipe the butts of old people, and 10,000 other thankless, tiring, and dangerous jobs which no one in their right mind would ever do because they found it fun and interesting. Until we have very highly capable robots to do these jobs, we need some way to incentivise doing w…

By someone you mean... yourself?

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#140

Post by martin-t »

canpan wrote: post #8

I wonder if the winning game becomes your own boss and tiny companies. I want to do the jump, but lack of courage, good ideas, sales skills and a very good salary still holding me back (open for suggestions). But if the very good salary would go away, the scales tip instantly.

I wonder if the solution is democracy.

Most countries used to be hereditary dictatorships ("kingdoms") just a few hundred years ago, then people picked up rifles (and guillotines) and changed that. Now, since we already have some semblance of democracy at the top layer of power, maybe we could revolutionize the lower layers without the risks inherent to picking up rifles.

I don't see why we should be controlled by sociopaths[0] 8 hours a day, quite often against our interests.

---

The other part of the solution is automatically and continuously redistributing ownership of the company according to hours worked and skill level. This of course has to be required by law, otherwise those sociopaths at the top have so much leverage that if you ask for anything other than money during negotiation, you'll get laughed out of the room.

[0]: https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-...

Post reply on HN