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Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

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Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#121

Post by Gareth321 »

shrubby wrote: post #98
Unbeliever69 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably not the answer you want to here but I'll share my perspective. Three years ago my wife and I sat down and optimized our finances so I could soft-retire and focus on a few of my life goals while simultaneously working on ways to generate income without the stress of being in the employ of others. It was tough work which mainly involved paying down a lot of debt so we can live more lean. We did a lot of optimi…

Wonder what you'd do with your passion in a just world where everything of creativity (okay almost) would not need to be turned into a income. I feel this fucking form of slavery as well hard. How sorry can life be?

We live in a world where someone has to clean the sewers, unblock toilets, maintain electricity lines in snow storms, weld deep underwater, clean, wipe the butts of old people, and 10,000 other thankless, tiring, and dangerous jobs which no one in their right mind would ever do because they found it fun and interesting. Until we have very highly capable robots to do these jobs, we need some way to incentivise doing work which few others want to do, or are capable of doing. Right now we use money as the incentive. On top of that, there are things people do which bring a lot of value to others. They invent new things, for example, and sell them. Others buy them. We also want to incentivise that, even though it's not easy, and not everyone is capable of doing that.

I do think AI and robotics will usher in a much more abundant world in the future. It's unclear how we navigate that - economically, politically, socially.

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#122

Post by mday-edamame »

p1esk wrote: post #75
roncesvalles wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Now imagine a world where meta knows exactly how much I make and all the other information about me. I’d probably get a minor bump over my previous salary. Not necessarily. People don't change companies for just any value greater than current TC. There is a big cost to switching companies -- it's going to shake up your lifestyle, you might lose some relationships, reset your company-internal network and reputation,…

My policy is the opposite – I switch companies every two years. Especially if I get too comfortable. Usually because I’m bored or because the company grows too much (>100 people is too much for me).

Are you worried that you never get to see the results of architectural decisions you make? Two years is not much time to make an impact and see it through if you’re senior+

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#123

Post by defrost »

Gareth321 wrote: post #121
shrubby wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wonder what you'd do with your passion in a just world where everything of creativity (okay almost) would not need to be turned into a income. I feel this fucking form of slavery as well hard. How sorry can life be?

We live in a world where someone has to clean the sewers, unblock toilets, maintain electricity lines in snow storms, weld deep underwater, clean, wipe the butts of old people, and 10,000 other thankless, tiring, and dangerous jobs which no one in their right mind would ever do because they found it fun and interesting. Until we have very highly capable robots to do these jobs, we need some way to incentivise doing w…

Alternatively, you live in a society that has conditioned you to devalue manual labour and erronously assume that no one exists who actually enjoys physical interaction with the world.

As you're likely to be in the US, you could always watch the Mike Rowe Dirty Jobs back catalog.

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenny_(2006_film)

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#124

Post by lazide »

YokoZar wrote: post #82
bjt12345 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing about this is that there still exist clauses in employment contracts requiring pay secrecy by employees. So, theoretically some employees have a requirement upon them to fill this in.

Those requirements are all facially illegal and unenforceable though. In the US you have federally protected labor rights that you cannot contract out of. The right to discuss pay and working conditions with other workers and the public is one of them.

Guess what agency has been gutted and attacked recently? EEOC recently….

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#125

Post by srdjanr »

defrost wrote: post #123
Gareth321 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We live in a world where someone has to clean the sewers, unblock toilets, maintain electricity lines in snow storms, weld deep underwater, clean, wipe the butts of old people, and 10,000 other thankless, tiring, and dangerous jobs which no one in their right mind would ever do because they found it fun and interesting. Until we have very highly capable robots to do these jobs, we need some way to incentivise doing w…

Alternatively, you live in a society that has conditioned you to devalue manual labour and erronously assume that no one exists who actually enjoys physical interaction with the world. As you're likely to be in the US, you could always watch the Mike Rowe Dirty Jobs back catalog. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenny_(2006_film)

That's true for some jobs, but I'd be very surprised if anyone enjoys cleaning shit, for example

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#126

Post by scotty79 »

verteu wrote: post #47
scotty79 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not shifted. It's just there. It was never on the employees. Employees don't have their own money to tax. Employees money is employers money. That's its source. Employees get taxed when they spend money by being consumers. Sales taxes and VAT are their tax burden. But income taxes of the employees are the burden of the employer. It's employer who has to fork that money because otherwise he wouldn't be able to pa…

The poster is referring to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_incidence

It's really not as straightforward as they make it to be:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00472...

Higher taxes cause gross pay to raise.

There's evidence that increasing cost of operation of corporations through taxation is not fully born by workers. It falls in large part on the owners and landlords (who were omited in earlier works on income tax incidence).

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=8997844...

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#127

Post by scotty79 »

verteu wrote: post #39
scotty79 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just imagine what would happen if income taxes for employees were reduced to zero. If you think employees would have that much more money you don't think straight. Employers don't pay workers as much as they can. They pay them as little as they can and that mostly doesn't change with the tax rate. That's all you need to know to understand the actual mechanics in presence of misleading labels. Nominally income tax (of…

No, that's not what the evidence shows, eg: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00472... > Gruber is able to identify incidence on gross earnings as well as on employment by exploiting variation in payroll tax changes between firms. The benefit of the payroll tax cut is found to have been fully shifted to workers through higher earnings, with no significant employment effects. With similar objectiv…

From the same paper:

"Higher marginal tax rates are associated with increases in gross wages and earnings."

The part that you cited is where they cite the old papers by other authors. They also say why conclusions of those papers might have been wrong:

"Moreover, we show that ignoring the potential labour supply response to a tax change, following the methodology of Gruber (1997) or Anderson and Meyer (1998), as well as ignoring the endogeneity of the marginal tax rate, may lead to the erroneous conclusion that the tax is fully incident on equilibrium earnings."

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#128

Post by defrost »

srdjanr wrote: post #125
defrost wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternatively, you live in a society that has conditioned you to devalue manual labour and erronously assume that no one exists who actually enjoys physical interaction with the world. As you're likely to be in the US, you could always watch the Mike Rowe Dirty Jobs back catalog. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenny_(2006_film)

That's true for some jobs, but I'd be very surprised if anyone enjoys cleaning shit, for example

Leaving aside the scene from Life of Brian, I have no issue cleaning shit - I've raised children, they poop, I have livestock, they shit, kids will happily frisbee cow pats, raking out sheep shit from under shearing sheds is a job that I've done, as have many .. you end up with a couple of tonne stacked high on a double axle trailer that's great for the garden.

For what it's worth, I don't mind a bit of higher dimensional data reduction when processing raw multi channel data, or geophysical world modelling (magnetic fields, gravity, radiometrics, etc).

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#129

Post by shrubby »

srdjanr wrote: post #125
defrost wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternatively, you live in a society that has conditioned you to devalue manual labour and erronously assume that no one exists who actually enjoys physical interaction with the world. As you're likely to be in the US, you could always watch the Mike Rowe Dirty Jobs back catalog. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenny_(2006_film)

That's true for some jobs, but I'd be very surprised if anyone enjoys cleaning shit, for example

I'm heading to the Graeberian world of bullshit jobs which ironically tends to head towards the direction of meaning.

I'm pro "everyone cleans their own shit" but the meaning of a garbage truck driver could immense compared to a honest hedge fund manager or a VC Patagonia vest.

Cleaning time of our own shit hopefully won't be a full time job. We'll just figure out the ones creating too much shit and educate them as a society :D

Re: Employers use your personal data to figure out the lowest salary you'll accept

#130

Post by sdoering »

carlob wrote: post #117
anal_reactor wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I earn like €100k per year. Not a huge salary, but definitely above average. My family lives in Eastern Europe. Once I was hanging out with my cousin and his friends, all of these people had minimum-wage jobs. Not really my type of social circle, but I have no issues being cool for an evening. Then suddenly my cousin drinks one too many and starts blabbering about how "fucking rich" I am and all eyes turn to me becau…

Sweden is one of the countries with the lowest salary inequality in the world. In Eastern Europe 100k a year puts you at what 10x minimum wage? I think that would be considered a pretty high salary in France or Spain as well. I think your friend reaction is warranted, but I don't think it would happen often in Sweden...

Even in Germany 100k€ a year puts you in the top 2% (maybe even top1%) for single earners. And in the top 5% for a couple.

So OP is - for eastern European standards (depending on which country specifically) very well off. Talking as if 100k€ was nothing special is actually quite telling imho.

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