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Case study: recovery of a corrupted 12 TB multi-device pool

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Re: Case study: recovery of a corrupted 12 TB multi-device pool

#11

> This is not a bug report. [...] The goal is constructive, not a complaint. Er, I appreciate trying to be constructive, but in what possible situation is it not a bug that a power cycle can lose the pool? And if it's not technically a "bug" because BTRFS officially specifies that it can fail like that, why is that not in big bold text at the start of any docs on it? 'Cuz that's kind of a big deal for users to know.…

As far as I can see, no, the author disabled nothing of the sort that he documented. I suspect that the author's intent is less "I do not view this as a bug" and more "I do not think it's useful to get into angry debates over whether something is a bug". I do not know whether this is a common thing on btrfs discussions, but I have certainly seen debates to that effect elsewhere. (My personal favorite remains "it's no…

> I suspect that the author's intent is less "I do not view this as a bug" and more "I do not think it's useful to get into angry debates over whether something is a bug".

Agreed, and I appreciate the attempt to channel things into a productive conversation.

Re: Case study: recovery of a corrupted 12 TB multi-device pool

#12

> Case study: recovery of a severely corrupted 12 TB multi-device pool, plus constructive gap analysis and reference tool set #1107 Please don't be btrfs please don't be btrfs please don't be btrfs...

I mean, the only other option was bcachefs, which might have been funny if this LLM-generated blogpost were written by the OpenClaw instance the developer has decided is sentient:

https://www.reddit.com/r/bcachefs/comments/1rblll1/the_blog_...

But no. It was btrfs.

As a side note, it's somewhat impressive that an LLM agent was able to produce a suite of custom tools that were apparently successfully used to recover some data from a corrupted btrfs array, even ad-hoc.

Re: Case study: recovery of a corrupted 12 TB multi-device pool

#13
post #12

> Case study: recovery of a severely corrupted 12 TB multi-device pool, plus constructive gap analysis and reference tool set #1107 Please don't be btrfs please don't be btrfs please don't be btrfs...

I mean, the only other option was bcachefs, which might have been funny if this LLM-generated blogpost were written by the OpenClaw instance the developer has decided is sentient: https://www.reddit.com/r/bcachefs/comments/1rblll1/the_blog_... But no. It was btrfs. As a side note, it's somewhat impressive that an LLM agent was able to produce a suite of custom tools that were apparently successfully used to recover s…

It could be ZFS. I'd be much more surprised, but it can still have bugs.

Re: Case study: recovery of a corrupted 12 TB multi-device pool

#14
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, the only other option was bcachefs, which might have been funny if this LLM-generated blogpost were written by the OpenClaw instance the developer has decided is sentient: https://www.reddit.com/r/bcachefs/comments/1rblll1/the_blog_... But no. It was btrfs. As a side note, it's somewhat impressive that an LLM agent was able to produce a suite of custom tools that were apparently successfully used to recover s…

It could be ZFS. I'd be much more surprised, but it can still have bugs.

ZFS on Linux has had many bugs over the years, notably with ZFS-native encryption and especially sending/receiving encrypted volumes. Another issue is that using swap on ZFS is still guaranteed to hang the kernel in low memory scenarios, because ZFS needs to allocate memory to write to swap.

Re: Case study: recovery of a corrupted 12 TB multi-device pool

#15
post #7

This is obviously LLM output, but perhaps LLM output that corresponds to a real scenario. It's plausible that Claude was able to autonomously recover a corrupted fs, but I would not trust its "insights" by default. I'd love to see a btrfs dev's take on this!

An LLM wouldn't make a mistake like "One paragraph summary"

Re: Case study: recovery of a corrupted 12 TB multi-device pool

#16

> This is not a bug report. [...] The goal is constructive, not a complaint. Er, I appreciate trying to be constructive, but in what possible situation is it not a bug that a power cycle can lose the pool? And if it's not technically a "bug" because BTRFS officially specifies that it can fail like that, why is that not in big bold text at the start of any docs on it? 'Cuz that's kind of a big deal for users to know.…

btrfs's reputation is not great in this regard.

Re: Case study: recovery of a corrupted 12 TB multi-device pool

#17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could be ZFS. I'd be much more surprised, but it can still have bugs.

ZFS on Linux has had many bugs over the years, notably with ZFS-native encryption and especially sending/receiving encrypted volumes. Another issue is that using swap on ZFS is still guaranteed to hang the kernel in low memory scenarios, because ZFS needs to allocate memory to write to swap.

The zero copy that zero copied unencrypted blocks onto encrypted file systems was genius. It’s almost like they don’t test.

Re: Case study: recovery of a corrupted 12 TB multi-device pool

#18

To theal author: did you continue using btrfs after this ordeal? An FS that will not eat (all) your data upon a hard powercycle only at the cost of 14 custom C tools is a hard pass from me no matter how many distros try to push it down my throat as 'production-ready'... Also, impressive work!

What are the alternatives to btrfs? At 12 TB data checksums are a must unless the data tolerate bit-rot. And if one wants to stick with the official kernel without out-of-tree modules, btrfs is the only choice.

Re: Case study: recovery of a corrupted 12 TB multi-device pool

#20
post #18

To theal author: did you continue using btrfs after this ordeal? An FS that will not eat (all) your data upon a hard powercycle only at the cost of 14 custom C tools is a hard pass from me no matter how many distros try to push it down my throat as 'production-ready'... Also, impressive work!

What are the alternatives to btrfs? At 12 TB data checksums are a must unless the data tolerate bit-rot. And if one wants to stick with the official kernel without out-of-tree modules, btrfs is the only choice.

> if one wants to stick with the official kernel without out-of-tree modules

I wonder how could a requirement like that possibly arise. Especially with an obvious exception for zfs.

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