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The People's Bailout

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Re: The People's Bailout

#311

Post by lifeguard »

heyrhett wrote: post #44
patio11 wrote: post #25

For the benefit of folks who might not understand how debt collection works, which may include OWS: if you buy $10,000 of an individual's debt for $500 and then forgive the debt, they have just incurred income of $10,000 and are obligated to pay taxes on it exactly as if you had handed them $10,000 in cash for services rendered. If you don't inform the IRS that you forgave the debt, via a 1099-C, you're going to get…

Good point, patio11. If debtors don't pay back their debt after after a certain time period, they are supposed to report it as income, but I doubt very many do. Setting up an organization like this puts the onus on the organization to file the 1099-C's

Unpaid interest owed on debt would never be income.

Re: The People's Bailout

#312

Post by lifeguard »

mkr-hn wrote: post #296
lifeguard wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you know how to hustle in the vernacular sense you can come to the USA penniless and retire wealthy. The USA is a great place if you want/need the rule of law to protect property. Overall, the US civil legal system is not corrupt. In many places in Asia and E. Europe corruption is systemic. It is much more difficult to keep a successful business in such an environment. One example is real estate escrow services wi…

Are you living in a different US? I'm not saying the path to wealth is beyond my horizon, but there's a lot in the way that only exists because previous generations managed things poorly. Someone starting a little further behind would have an exponentially harder time.

I cited my travel as sources of my knowledge about corrupt systems.

As a male WASP child of educated, professional parents I have had almost every advantage possible. I know this.

Having watched many small businesses owned and operated by 'new' Americans has made me appreciate what is possible here, in a big city at least.

Re: The People's Bailout

#313

Post by greedo »

potatolicious wrote: post #301
greedo wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I'm clucking derisively. And the nice ad hominem touches about sexism, racism, privilege etc. This isn't LN, it's HN. Where both the methods and the motives can be discussed. My opinion is that OWS is aiming more for a political statement with this program as opposed to helping people. They may believe that this political statement will do more to help people than just acting as a charity; I'm not ascribing cynica…

I apologize - my post was unclear. It wasn't my intention to label you as "clucking derisively" - that was more of a footnote re: the rest of this thread, and other users whose posts are as ignorant as they are judgmental. Once again - my post was written poorly, please separate the two halves, the latter of which was not in any way intended to be aimed at you. Specifically regarding your medical history - the differ…

Yeah, I took it the wrong way. No worries, I should have a thicker skin.

I was very lucky with my medical stuff. My wife has excellent, I mean excellent group insurance. Even with that, I still had a lot of out of pocket/copay expenses; and getting canned sure didn't help since I was the primary breadwinner. Universal healthcare wouldn't have helped me with my lost job however; only something like a short-term disability plan (which I have now) would. So I think there's a place and need for charity and non-governmental aid. The US is population is pretty generous, but it's hard to know where to ask for help, and if you can count on it when needed.

Re: The People's Bailout

#314

Post by elemenohpee »

justindocanto wrote: post #302
elemenohpee wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's a signal to all these debtors that there's a significant segment of the population that doesn't want to play by the old rules. It shows that they can count on their fellow citizens to help them out when they are down on their luck, the very definition of social capital.

Alright... lets actually entertain this idealism for a second. Let's give it a good honest shot and see how well this could work out, even in the most favorable conditions. Lets say 700 people go this event because the capacity of the venue is a maximum of 700. Let's also say they all donated $50 bucks. Let's be real, most people will only pay $25 each because they're they're psuedo-anarchostic punks who just want to…

That's great that you went to all that effort, but I still think you're missing the point. This is not about "putting the man on his ear". You're the only one who sounds like a pseudo-anarchist here. It's the same noise we heard about how the encampments were ineffective, while the national conversation changed around us.

Re: The People's Bailout

#315

Post by elemenohpee »

greedo wrote: post #280
elemenohpee wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what you want my argument to be, because it would be much easier to dismiss. In reality what I'm saying is that I don't think it's right to have a society that puts crazy amounts of pressure on people and simultaneously refuses to acknowledge the negative influence that those pressures have on behavior.

I'm not dismissing the point that people have hard choices to make in life, but I am refusing to acknowledge that they lack responsibility for those choices. Society puts a lot of pressure on me to live up to its standards. It's my choice as to whether I let that pressure influence me against my values. Sometimes all the choices and options suck. Not denying that at all. But if I ran over someone while driving in a t…

> You can't really control the amounts of pressure and negative influence you get in life.

The entire premise of OWS is that we can. Another world is possible.

Re: The People's Bailout

#316

Post by MaysonL »

philwelch wrote: post #150
lifeguard wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only is it bad, a BK on your file means you will have to use 'special' finance to get a car loan and it will be impossible to find a bank to underwrite a sub-prime loan for a house (for seven years). You would also have to pay a higher rent security deposit on an apartment.

If you lose badly enough at credit that you end up declaring bankruptcy, maybe homeownership or car loans aren't for you. Just a thought.

Or perhaps if you get sick and have horrendously high medical bills that your insurance decides not to cover because you failed to report a hangnail on your application (or got fired from a job and then got screwed by a pre-existing condition). Just a thought.

Re: The People's Bailout

#317

Post by justindocanto »

elemenohpee wrote: post #314
justindocanto wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alright... lets actually entertain this idealism for a second. Let's give it a good honest shot and see how well this could work out, even in the most favorable conditions. Lets say 700 people go this event because the capacity of the venue is a maximum of 700. Let's also say they all donated $50 bucks. Let's be real, most people will only pay $25 each because they're they're psuedo-anarchostic punks who just want to…

That's great that you went to all that effort, but I still think you're missing the point. This is not about "putting the man on his ear". You're the only one who sounds like a pseudo-anarchist here. It's the same noise we heard about how the encampments were ineffective, while the national conversation changed around us.

I give up.

Re: The People's Bailout

#318

Post by eupharis »

philwelch wrote: post #151
eupharis wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Expensive in this case (for the US) meaning $700 to $2000. Which is rather a lot for the insolvent. Not to mention the paperwork sounds like an ordeal. I think there is a psychological block for a lot of people too. It takes a certain point-of-view and education to be able to enter into lending arrangements with creditors with the perspective: "I believe I am going to make a profit and we will both win. But there is…

Part of interest compensates the lender for risk, but the rest of it--most of it, in fact, if you have good credit--is just time value of money.

Interest compensation for risk is distributed, granted. X percent of creditors will default on their loans. You don't know ahead of time who will and who won't. So demand Y percent from everyone over and above what you would in a world where everyone paid.

If that's not what you are getting at, I don't get your comment? Unless we are talking of a foolish lender?

Edit: Durr. Just got it. You are talking about the return the lender receives, the reason he lends instead of consumes. Yes, part of interest is risk compensation.

Re: The People's Bailout

#319

Post by tripzilch »

rprasad wrote: post #88
patio11 wrote: post #25

For the benefit of folks who might not understand how debt collection works, which may include OWS: if you buy $10,000 of an individual's debt for $500 and then forgive the debt, they have just incurred income of $10,000 and are obligated to pay taxes on it exactly as if you had handed them $10,000 in cash for services rendered. If you don't inform the IRS that you forgave the debt, via a 1099-C, you're going to get…

if you buy $10,000 of an individual's debt for $500 and then forgive the debt, they have just incurred income of $10,000 and are obligated to pay taxes on it exactly as if you had handed them $10,000 in cash for services rendered. It could alternatively be characterized as a gift, in which case it is not income to the recipient (but could incur gift taxes to the "gifter"). If you don't inform the IRS that you forgave…

Also it would be kind of unfair, if the government could spend loads of the people's money to bail out banks, but the people can't spend money to bail out people ... I know, "fair" doesn't necessarily have much to do with law, but still.

Re: The People's Bailout

#320

Post by tellulah »

wheelerwj wrote: post #155
RollingJubilee wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi everyone. I want to assure you all that we are aware of the tax implications. We are working with a pro-bono tax lawyer and have called the IRS several times. The IRS informed us that we do not meet the requirements to file a 1099-c (we are not a bank, credit union, etc.) Our tax lawyer has written some technical langue for our website. The bottom line is that we will be purchasing debt of people who are most like…

hey, do you know if it is possible to buy up a specific person debt? or just general debt contracts?

Yes, it is possible. I have purchased my daughter's debt from a hospital stay. This was 20 years ago but I called the creditor and told them that she was an unemployed college student and they weren't likely to get anything from her, I on the other hand was willing to pay them .20 on the dollar for the debt. They accepted and I paid the debt. (this was not the original creditor but I believe the third, the debt having been sold twice, so they likely made a little money on it and took what I offered rather than take the chance of getting less through another sale or nothing)
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