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Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

sschueller.github.io

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Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#191

Post by IFC_LLC »

Good take, and most of the data in the article is quite correct. The problem is a total mix up of cause and effect. The US has had a decent communication network since way back. We had telegraph, telephone and telex. Bell and AT&T and all that stuff. We've invented and piloted modems, T1 and cable TV.

Our infrastructure at times goes back 200 years old. We have rules and words in today's networking linguo that go back 70 years old. You can't just go and tell that it would have been better this way. It absolutely would. And I'm happy for Swiss people who can have 25gpbs at a fraction of the cost. But you can't do that with an emerging tech that is trying to replace existing architecture.

Swiss guys built all that after the tech was wide-spread in the world, and they have built it over a very outdated infrastructure. It was a breeze.

US just unable to use this approach. We can't.

Should we come up with a new one? Yes. Should we look at the Swiss solution and try to replicate it. Yes. Is it awesome? Yes. Would it work here? No.

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#192

Post by NewsaHackO »

HauntingPin wrote: post #49
bestouff wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

So this shows competition works, but I thought the original post was about the free market. When the two companies were asked to fill a need for the people, they refused, and the people were not otherwise about to independently provide the service based on their own funds. I feel as though if the only way of getting companies to do something without organic competition is to use underhanded methods (such as lying about another competitor), then the free market has some places for improvement, no?

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#193

Post by WalterBright »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #96
littlestymaar wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> with the notable exception of people with lots of capital to wipe the competition out of the market then do a rug pull after the fact They used to be called robber barons.

Ironically, during the anti-trust trial of Standard Oil, Rockefeller's market share kept slipping. His competitors figured out how to compete with him.

As for Rockefeller being a "robber", the rise of Standard Oil resulted in the price of kerosene dropping 70%.

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#195

Post by mft_ »

lll-o-lll wrote: post #150
whereistejas wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing is insurmountable; however each one of us must play within the practical constraints of our local geographies (political, social, financial and physical). The parent comment probably means that Switzerland is in a positive on all axes unlike the rest of the world.

It’s politics. Boil most things down and the technical is inconsequential when compared to the politics. Look at the political system of Switzerland and you will see a radically different setup. And I think that’s the horse. The rest is cart. Yes they are rich but why? Yes they are relatively stable socially but why? Decentralised Canton government structure + direct democracy (referendums all the time for things tha…

I think there's more to it than that.

From a philosophical perspective, I love the cantonal/direct democracy model. But it's supported by a strong culture of awareness of current affairs, and involvement in the political process. (Of course, these two aspects are likely strongly synergistic.)

However, I'm not sure this unique political structure explains the trains running on time, the sensible choices made about the internet structure (per the article), the top-of-the-world healthcare system, the Swiss cheese science institute, or many other aspects of the broader country. It may partly explain the routinely excellent government bureaucracy (say that with a straight face anywhere else!), the convenient and reliable local public transport options, and the local police being well-resourced to the point of apparent boredom.

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#196

Post by lava_pidgeon »

IFC_LLC wrote: post #191

Good take, and most of the data in the article is quite correct. The problem is a total mix up of cause and effect. The US has had a decent communication network since way back. We had telegraph, telephone and telex. Bell and AT&T and all that stuff. We've invented and piloted modems, T1 and cable TV. Our infrastructure at times goes back 200 years old. We have rules and words in today's networking linguo that go bac…

Ehm,

Do you seriously think 70 years ago Swiss had no telephon net so they create a new one?

Or is this argument that US is just too special to change?

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#197

Post by WalterBright »

zx8080 wrote: post #153
ttul wrote: post #9

In my small island community, I participated in a municipal committee whose mandate was to bring proper broadband to the island. Although two telecom duopolies already served the community, one of them had undersea fiber but zero fiber to the home (DSL remains the only option), whereas the other used a 670 Mbps wireless microwave link for backhaul and delivery via coaxial cable. And pricing? Insanely expensive for ei…

Either side of the spectre lies enshittification: - more competition comes with margin squeezing and cheapest source for service or goods - less competition brings the monopoly, the dream of any capitalist (owner, not user). Either way comes enshittification, and there's no middle balance, it drifts towards one of the sides always.

During the Soviet Union years, tourists to it knew that the thing to do was pack blue jeans in their luggage, which were highly desirable under communism. Wearing blue jeans in the USSR was a mark of status.

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#198

Post by lava_pidgeon »

While on surface scratch level this might be a good entry analysis it lacks deeper comparisons to other great networks nations Like Romania or South Korea. Is it cheaper there? What about coverage? Uptimes? Why is the service "better"? Why is it by the way a free market "lie"? ( For me a lie means a wrong information by purpose)

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#199

Post by lava_pidgeon »

ceejayoz wrote: post #184
mgfist wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's got 9m people. The US has 30x the people and 250x the space. It's not comparable.

So why do we struggle to get the infrastructure to work in dense urban areas still? Or even just “not Wyoming”? Switzerland and California have the same population density. Why can’t CA build high speed rail?

Just for the information Switzerland neither does ;)

Re: Why Switzerland has 25 Gbit internet and America doesn't

#200

Post by ceejayoz »

lava_pidgeon wrote: post #199
ceejayoz wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why do we struggle to get the infrastructure to work in dense urban areas still? Or even just “not Wyoming”? Switzerland and California have the same population density. Why can’t CA build high speed rail?

Just for the information Switzerland neither does ;)

CA’s high speed rail isn’t high speed by European standards and it looks on the way to cancelation or significant curtailment. We can’t even manage what y’all would consider slow rail.
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