German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function • Hacker News Board

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#241

Post by haagch » Sun, Apr 05, 2026, 10:24 AM UTC

mrweasel wrote: post #204

AlBugdy wrote: post #25

All these requirements for specific hardware and software are ridiculous. Let every citizen use whatever computer they want. It should be up to the user to secure themselves. Authentication should only require a password or a key pair. If the user wants more security, they can set up TOTP or buy a security dongle or something. It's also ridiculous how it seems we've forgotten computers other than smartphones exist an…

Last week I was watching a YouTube video, talking about the EU creating payment services independent of VISA and MasterCard. What struck me is that they are all apps, which will require an app store. Great, I can pay with a digital Euro, Wero or something else, without routing my payments via VISA. I just can't do it without an account with Apple or Google. I'm absolutely baffled by politicians, regulators, banks, me…

The digital Euro seems still in early planning stages. It seems people want to plan a physical card for it, but whether online payments will work without a platform dependent app is unclear for now.

Wero however is currently only planned as an android/ios app period. There are rumors that a card will come but that's only rumors for now.

In your list of groups to be baffled about I would add journalists. You see many articles about Wero mentioning digital sovereignty, but have you seen any that criticize the required banking apps only being available in google's and apple's app stores?

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#242

Post by ElFitz » Sun, Apr 05, 2026, 10:27 AM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #208

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reputation/trust damage self inflicted by the current US administration is triggering a pushback that will expand into the future. This barely even seems like the relevant part. If Google was founded in Japan and Apple in Brazil, it would still be foolish to entrench them as a dependency. It would barely even be better to do it with a local company. > They will move their data it the EU (where else? China?). Th…

Relying on open protocols to make all the difference is much more potent hopium than what GP wrote. Open protocols are kind of thing techies do when in cooperative mode, when industry isn't looking. But this is not this kind of problem - this is an economic, geopolitical problem. It's not about your local school moving off Windows to Linux, it's about the European corporations moving off Azure to some other cloud sol…

> it's about the European corporations moving off Azure to some other cloud solution offered by European corporations (do we even have any?).

Scaleway and OVH? Although I’m not sure how they compare at scale to AWS / Azure / GCP.

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#243

Post by sunshine-o » Sun, Apr 05, 2026, 10:27 AM UTC

rcbdev wrote: post #172

sunshine-o wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The current policy trend in the EU is definitely not based on the principle of each user evaluating their own risk. Yes and if you look back this is not new. Just look at the extraordinary restrictions that apply to: - What houses you can build, - What vehicle you can drive, - What food you can grow and sell. The result is real estate has become unaffordable for younger people, our car industry is being annihilated…

I really have to wonder where in the EU you live. In Vienna, I got to buy an apartment in my mid-twenties by just saving up, which was easy, as many apartments are rent-capped and there's lots of cheap social housing. I got to enjoy free university, allowing me to get a high paying job. I get to use very cheap all electric state-subsidized rental car offerings if I need them, which is rare since we have federally goo…

Yes congratulation, you get to benefit from a lot of regulated and subsidized things: housing, education and transportation.

While enjoying a high paying job in probably a still very unregulated domain (computers/internet related).

This is not about one country vs another.

The problem is you cannot have a society with everybody winning on both fronts unfortunately. You also need people making, cleaning stuff, growing food, cooking, etc. Not everybody can live in the capital with "very cheap all electric state-subsidized rental car" and Vienna is probably not food self sufficient...

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#244

Post by mytailorisrich » Sun, Apr 05, 2026, 10:27 AM UTC

makerofthings wrote: post #240

Requiring people to use products from one of two private American companies with a bad track record of locking people out of their accounts is more than “not great”. Some things are better not done if they can’t be done well.

Yes but in the real world all smartphones are either Apple or Android. Europe has zero footprint in either software or hardware. It is not creating a requirement to use specific products, it is using the products people already have.

So one may argue that the implementers are only taking the pragmatic approach regarding something that is out of their hands.

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#245

Post by oytis » Sun, Apr 05, 2026, 10:27 AM UTC

webhamster wrote: post #155

German implementer here. We have to use some kind of attestation mechanism per the eIDAS implementing acts. That doesn't work without operating system support. The initial limitation to Google/Android is not great, we know that, and we have support for other OSs on our list (like, e.g., GrapheneOS). It is simply a matter of where we focus our energy at the moment, not that we don't see the issues.

I don't get it. Are mechanisms in our ID cards not strong enough so that we have to rely on the security of the operating system?

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#246

Post by abc123abc123 » Sun, Apr 05, 2026, 10:29 AM UTC

dark-star wrote: post #239

haagch wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German citizen here. So why is an implementation going forward when you already know it will not serve all citizens? Why are we not refusing to implement this until we know we can make it work on all devices? Personally I recently switched from an AOSP based android without Google Play to Ubuntu Touch. In the future with better hardware support I will probably switch to postmarketOS.

because then it will never get done. There are still people using old Nokia phones, for those there will never be a solution. The usual 80/20 rule applies here as well. And if you really are a German citizen, you know how slow the wheels of government already turn in Germany, I assume next week you would be the one complaining that "Germany is so far behind" and that "other countries are so much faster at implementin…

Yeah, let's burn the witches who care about privacy! Jokes aside, in a democracy, the systems must be designed so that everyone can participate. We manage to do it with voting, with income tax declaration, but for some strange reason, with ID we want to achieve 1984 nirvana, and crush the voices who tell us that the surveilance society we are building is just setting us up for the next Hitler.

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#247

Post by Matumio » Sun, Apr 05, 2026, 10:29 AM UTC

jahnu wrote: post #164

archerx wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if I don’t have a smartphone?

I wonder if there will be a big enough market for a very compact smartphone equivalent device that can be used just for credentials? A device that is offline on standby except when you need it. Perhaps the size of a car key.

If it can go online, I'd prefer to use an android work (or user) profile with only auth apps in it, and nothing else.

As a separate device, it should be offline always IMO, and perhaps the size of a passkey. Or one of those banking devices with a display that show an authenticated text saying what you are confirming.

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#248

Post by NanoCoaster » Sun, Apr 05, 2026, 10:32 AM UTC

webhamster wrote: post #155

German implementer here. We have to use some kind of attestation mechanism per the eIDAS implementing acts. That doesn't work without operating system support. The initial limitation to Google/Android is not great, we know that, and we have support for other OSs on our list (like, e.g., GrapheneOS). It is simply a matter of where we focus our energy at the moment, not that we don't see the issues.

Will eIDAS be the only way to identify yourself in cases where it's needed, or will we be able to user other mechanisms like the german ID card stuff or an entirely separate alternative?

Or to put it another way, is a smartphone required? If not, that would already clear up a lot of issues, I think.

EDIT: Whoops, just saw the answer to another comment asking precisely this. So it's not a requirement. Good. Is there a legal framework that ensures that this remains the case? Otherwise, I fear it will become a de facto requirement over time.

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#249

Post by jonathanstrange » Sun, Apr 05, 2026, 10:32 AM UTC

rcbdev wrote: post #163

weddpros wrote: post #131

Self Sovereign Identity (aka SSI) is the only way out of those identity sovereignty issues. It shouldn't be acceptable that your identity depends on anything or anyone. It should just be your identity. A paper or certificate can prove an entity trusts your identity to be but that shouldn't be your identity. You just are. Not your google Id, not your Apple Id either of course. Governments are lame.

> Governments are lame In 2019, the EU created an eIDAS compatible European Self-Sovereign Identity Framework (ESSIF). How is the government lame, here? We've had the infrastructure for 7 years now.

How is that not lame?

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#250

Post by regnerd » Sun, Apr 05, 2026, 10:33 AM UTC

webhamster wrote: post #155

German implementer here. We have to use some kind of attestation mechanism per the eIDAS implementing acts. That doesn't work without operating system support. The initial limitation to Google/Android is not great, we know that, and we have support for other OSs on our list (like, e.g., GrapheneOS). It is simply a matter of where we focus our energy at the moment, not that we don't see the issues.

that‘s not correct. Article 5 eIDAS2 explicitly states, that europeans exercise full control over their data. Therefore EUDI wallet must not be a walled garden. Especially if the wallet shall be used for authenticating and signing, it must be available to all europeans, even those sanctioned by the US.

If this is your plan, please go back to the drawing board.