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The CMS is dead, long live the CMS

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Re: The CMS is dead, long live the CMS

#91

Post by nimonian »

simonw wrote: post #60
huijzer wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I ran git-based blogs for years and have gone back to CMS. The instant preview and the instant publishing really make it a lot more pleasant to work with it. With Git, my read-eval-print loop so to say was a minute which is just too long. Fixing a typo then takes 2 minutes.

Now I'm imagining a static site editing tool that runs the exact same templates client-side to power an accurate preview that are then used by the static page build process.

I am building _exactly_ this for my org for the past month, using Nuxt Content.

A "draft" is a row in a database with live preview. Users can click a button to make a checkpoint (git commit, by GitHub API, but they don't know that). When they click "publish", the PR for their draft is merged.

Writers in my team can use a nice Tiptap editor with custom components. I get the change management of git.

The API for reading content and editing drafts is also exposed over MCP meaning AI can collaborate in the authoring process from anywhere that can connect to MCP.

Loving it so far.

Re: The CMS is dead, long live the CMS

#92

Post by helsinkiandrew »

donohoe wrote: post #37

It’s important to note the use-cases here. A lot of this discussion treats "CMS" as a single thing, but the requirements vary wildly depending on scale: one blogger versus a five-person marketing team versus hundreds of authors and contributors. Different arenas. If you’re spinning up a personal CMS, great. Have fun, you’ll learn a lot. But once you’re dealing with multiple users (tens or hundreds) it’s a different p…

85% of Wordpress users are businesses with less than 50 employees [1], in most cases it will be one person who is uploading and managing content and fighting with the config they don’t really understand. There’s a huge number of businesses filling a real need of making simpler versions of products (whether Wordpress, mailchimp, shopping). AI is just the latest version of that

[1] https://enlyft.com/tech/products/wordpress

Re: The CMS is dead, long live the CMS

#93

Post by jqbd »

tappio wrote: post #20

I have built a product which uses AI to built Astro sites. LLM builds the sites in steps and make sure that they get 100/100 scores in pagespeed insights. These sites are served with a CDN. You can edit the sites with LLM interface, or use markdown editor to edit sites, or edit texts directly on a dashboard. These sites are static. There is no vendor lock in. If you want to migrate and manage yourself, just go to clo…

Free plans on GitHub don't technically allow commercial use

Re: The CMS is dead, long live the CMS

#94

Post by KronisLV »

I might have outdated views here but personally I think that a lot of the sites out there could benefit from having a CMS but at the same time that often won’t mean WordPress of all the options out there.

For example, my blog runs on Grav and I write articles in Markdown on my local PC (more convenient than admin UI for me) and even on the server it all remains file based - it’s reasonably simple, reasonably fast and still allows for dynamic behavior at render/cache time.

Compare that to the slop you get when you have a slow as fuck WP install with a crapload of plugins and the whole thing is brittle and slow and nobody has any idea how to fix it without breaking the current site. If people try applying it to every problem, that’s how you get bad attempts at building complex and bespoke ERP/CRM/e-commerce solutions in a stack that will never be easy or pleasant to work with in those domains.

But surely there is a middle ground - use CMSes where they make sense, reach for other stacks when you need a more generic web app (AI or not). Or heck, use the CMS headless for some parts of the overall thing. Actually, in that regard, I also kinda love Django Admin cause you get a lot out of the box.

Re: The CMS is dead, long live the CMS

#96

Post by _heimdall »

nchmy wrote: post #40
zrn900 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But 95% of web does not need it. Literally talking without knowledge here. There is always something that can be added with a Wordpress plugin and there is somebody who needs that. > static site There is no magic to that. You can make any Wordpress site basically static with one single plugin without losing any feature Wordpress provides. There is a reason why NASA, White House, Techcrunch, Reuters et al are all on…

What is always astounding to me is that people talk as if caching isn't a thing. It could hardly be easier to cache the html output from wordpress at either the webserver or CDN level, and it will perform just the same as any "static site" (of course, images, css etc will dictate how it performs once the browser receives the cached html)

Caching is rarely that simple though.

With a static site you know the output can be cached indefinitely and only invalidated by a new deploy.

With a server rendered site you can only recreate that by tracking ever piece of data a page is dependent on, tracking data changes, and invalidating any page a data change breaks.

No one does that though, so you may go for SWR or a short-ish cache window so changes take some set of minutes to roll out, looking like the delay in waiting for a static site to rebuild.

I'd never pick between static and server rendered based on caching. Factors like the size of the site, frequency of content updates, and technical skill of content authors (I've never found a git-based CMS I'd ask someone totally nontechnical to use).

Re: The CMS is dead, long live the CMS

#97

Post by com »

NetOpWibby wrote: post #69
hombre_fatal wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I built a production forum from scratch with thousands of real users. For years I thought of doing it. Can’t be that hard. You can imagine how every component would work. You just need a few tables, right? But it turns out a polished forum that people want to spend time on has infinite polish. Every feature explodes into a fractal of micro polish. You could spend your whole life improving it and handling rough edges…

I also thought about this but decided to go with Simple Machines Forum and I'm glad I did. Just looking at the dearth of options in the admin area is enough to make my head spin. That being said, I probably will embark on a custom form just because I'm highly opinionated and capable.

I suspect that you mean the opposite of “dearth” (figuratively “scarcity; a lack or short supply”) something like “excess”, maybe?

Re: The CMS is dead, long live the CMS

#98

Post by nkko »

ofrzeta wrote: post #86

For a while flat-file CMSs where all the rage. I've been using Grav for a while, it is based on (markdown) files as well but also has a GUI and a comparatively large community. https://getgrav.org/ "Voted "Best Flat File CMS" in 2017, 2019, 2020 & 2021!" :-)

What happened in 2022?

Re: The CMS is dead, long live the CMS

#99

Post by dwd »

RHSeeger wrote: post #50
donohoe wrote: post #37

It’s important to note the use-cases here. A lot of this discussion treats "CMS" as a single thing, but the requirements vary wildly depending on scale: one blogger versus a five-person marketing team versus hundreds of authors and contributors. Different arenas. If you’re spinning up a personal CMS, great. Have fun, you’ll learn a lot. But once you’re dealing with multiple users (tens or hundreds) it’s a different p…

> But once you’re dealing with multiple users (tens or hundreds) it’s a different problem. How confident are you writing auth and password reset flows? How sure are you that the AI got it right? How solid is your approach to roles and permissions? Are you implementing 2FA? Supporting drafts, scheduled publishing, editorial workflows? Now you are also tech support writing the infrastructure as issues come in. And that…

There's a new name for all that these days: Digital Experience Platform (DXP)

We used to call them Enterprise CMS: SiteCore, Squix Matrix (now Squix DXP) and Optimizely (when it was EpiServer) are the ones I've built sites with.

Re: The CMS is dead, long live the CMS

#100

Post by NetOpWibby »

com wrote: post #97
NetOpWibby wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also thought about this but decided to go with Simple Machines Forum and I'm glad I did. Just looking at the dearth of options in the admin area is enough to make my head spin. That being said, I probably will embark on a custom form just because I'm highly opinionated and capable.

I suspect that you mean the opposite of “dearth” (figuratively “scarcity; a lack or short supply”) something like “excess”, maybe?

Oh yes, thank you! SMH
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