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For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

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Re: For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

#121
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But by no means is it "both halves." Game players are overwhelmingly male. And this has nothing to do with exposure or expectations, it's entirely possible that the female brain just isn't as interested in video games. My fiancée enjoys Mario on occasion (and does complain that the princess always needs rescuing), but she flat out does not get into games nearly as much as I do. She could if she wanted to, absolutely…

> women as a whole are less interested in video games. We're nearing 50% of the market, just so you know.

Nearing half the market of games that have protagonists? I think it's great that more women are gaming. And I'd love to be wrong about this, but it does seem like they mostly make up the casual end of the market.

Re: For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

#122
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> women as a whole are less interested in video games. We're nearing 50% of the market, just so you know.

Nearing half the market of games that have protagonists? I think it's great that more women are gaming. And I'd love to be wrong about this, but it does seem like they mostly make up the casual end of the market.

I'd argue that the lack of strong, unsexualized and realistic female protagonists is the barrier here to begin with. The biggest argument I've heard from other women on why they don't play more "hardcore" games is specifically that they feel like they aren't represented in the scenarios these games present and when there are females, they don't look (or act) like they should if they were really in those situations. You don't tend to get a history of how she got there and what she went through. She's just there, in a tight little number, ready to jump around and look pretty.

The second complaint is not wanting to deal with the gender targeting that comes with gaming, both online and off. Girls feel like they can't be themselves (or even speak) in-game without being seen as or treated like a lesser competitor and they feel like they can't talk about them in real life situations without being labeled as a try-hard or someone that only got into it because of a boyfriend/brother, not because they actually enjoy it. You'll hear a lot of girls recount situations in which they're asked what their favorite games are, and when they answer with titles that aren't obscure enough, are told they're not real gamers. This is not to say that don't exist, but when you're treated like that's the norm, it's unsettling and makes you hesitant to bring the topic up in the future.

In having organized LANs for several years, I have dealt first-hand with the stares and questions dealing with my legitimacy in being there. Online, I've had entire teams target my player specifically and repeatedly with verbal assaults, kills and subsequent teabags despite having a gender-neutral name but a female avatar. It is not surprising at all to me why women would steer clear from this environment.

Third, a lot of women just don't talk about it because they don't see it differently from any other hobby they might have.

I think marketers just don't look hard enough to find who is really playing because they don't care. These tried-and-true formulaic games will keep bringing in the revenue they need to keep churning them out, why bother throwing a wrench in with inclusion?

Re: For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

#123
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite. Achilles and the Tortoise originally came from an essay by Lewis Carroll. Hofstadter had borrowed them for GEB, and in doing so also borrowed their gender -- or so he thought. In reality when he went back to check, long after publication, he realized that Lewis Carroll had left the Tortoise completely genderless.

I dug up the book to check, and in the 20th anniversary preface page 16 and 17, a few lines before the previous quote there is : "Mr Tortoise, meet Madame Tortue A few years later, a wholly unexpected chance came along to make amends, at least in part, for my sexist sin." And here comes the French translators part:"[...] they rather gingerly asked me if I would ever consider letting them switch the Tortoise's sex to…

Then it's probably my mix-up. An extremely similar passage occurs in Metamagical Themas, in which Hofstadter describes a conversation in which he first realized that he may have only assumed that Carroll's Tortoise was male. I've likely confused one with the other.

Re: For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

#124
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nearing half the market of games that have protagonists? I think it's great that more women are gaming. And I'd love to be wrong about this, but it does seem like they mostly make up the casual end of the market.

I'd argue that the lack of strong, unsexualized and realistic female protagonists is the barrier here to begin with. The biggest argument I've heard from other women on why they don't play more "hardcore" games is specifically that they feel like they aren't represented in the scenarios these games present and when there are females, they don't look (or act) like they should if they were really in those situations. Y…

It does suck that mainstream games nowadays are very macho-male oriented. But if you can look at the whole of gaming, there really are plenty of female protagonists, respectful and strong ones too. It's an annoyance of mine that games like Gears of War and Halo drive what most people think videogames are.

Online gaming is very male dominated. And yes places like Xbox Live are not exactly the best place for girls, unfortunately. But if you instead jump on Steam and play a game of Team Fortress 2 for example, it's a completely different story. Sexist, racist mouthy gamers are not always the norm. Different communities attract different types of players.

My fiancee loves the Tomb Raider movies. When I showed her that they are based on a video game series, she had no desire to play the games at all. I was careful to show her Tomb Raiders were Lara's boobs aren't ridiculous too. She has the opportunity to interactively play through the movies she loves, but that just doesn't interest her. Anecdotal, yes, but in my experience a lot of girls feel this way.

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