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Shooting down ideas is not a skill

scottlawsonbc.com

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Re: Shooting down ideas is not a skill

#71

Post by bawolff »

gdubs wrote: post #56
dsr_ wrote: post #49

> "I haven't heard any customers request this." "We can't use Python for that, it's too slow." "That introduces too much complexity." "We tried something like that before and it didn't work." "DevOps won't want to support another service." "People are used to the way it works now." > None of these people are wrong or stupid. And none of them have added any value. Bzzt. Since all of these people are correct and smart,…

Congrats, you've killed the idea in its infancy because you demanded answers to questions before it could even walk. Ideas need time to be explored, and given a chance.

If your idea is so in its infancy, that you can't explain its business case to people, even just hypothetically, than its too young to share.

Ideas are cheap. Everyone has them.

Re: Shooting down ideas is not a skill

#72

Post by bawolff »

nahfrtho wrote: post #70
dsr_ wrote: post #49

> "I haven't heard any customers request this." "We can't use Python for that, it's too slow." "That introduces too much complexity." "We tried something like that before and it didn't work." "DevOps won't want to support another service." "People are used to the way it works now." > None of these people are wrong or stupid. And none of them have added any value. Bzzt. Since all of these people are correct and smart,…

> Can't use Python because it's too slow? Show a proof of concept that is fast. Python is slow though, and for many use cases it won't work. For example, say somebody wanted to build a performant systems type software like version control. You're not really going to do that in Python. Something like that would even be slow in much "faster" Node.js. Some stuff you can't really use dynamic langauges for, if you want it…

> Python is slow though, and for many use cases it won't work.

This is actually the only criticism from the article i think is invalid.

Very little in the business world is so performance sensitive that language (as oppossed to algorithms used) make a difference.

If it does make a difference, python is still probably fine for the prototype.

If its still an issue, just use another language. You are at the beginning of the project, its trivial at this stage to switch languages.

All the other criticisms i consider very valid. The language choice example is a stupid one.

Re: Shooting down ideas is not a skill

#73

Post by zja »

gdubs wrote: post #56
dsr_ wrote: post #49

> "I haven't heard any customers request this." "We can't use Python for that, it's too slow." "That introduces too much complexity." "We tried something like that before and it didn't work." "DevOps won't want to support another service." "People are used to the way it works now." > None of these people are wrong or stupid. And none of them have added any value. Bzzt. Since all of these people are correct and smart,…

Congrats, you've killed the idea in its infancy because you demanded answers to questions before it could even walk. Ideas need time to be explored, and given a chance.

Isn’t proving a market exists, building a proof of concept, etc, all examples of exploring an idea? Those seem like perfectly reasonable expectations.

Re: Shooting down ideas is not a skill

#74

Post by Forgeties79 »

II2II wrote: post #64
Forgeties79 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This logic means you can’t ever be wrong because any case of a good idea not being implemented can be hand waved away as “not yet.” Edit: you changed your comment a lot

Take a look at the technology sitting in front of you. How many ideas does it incorporate that were tried and failed, or were tried but languished in niche markets for decades before they became an everyday thing? A lot of ideas fail because they're not ready: they are expensive, they are not reliable (yet), the world is not ready for them. None of those reasons mean an idea is bad. They simply mean it will take more…

“a lot of ideas fail because they’re not ready” =/= “all good ideas win out”

Re: Shooting down ideas is not a skill

#75

Post by Forgeties79 »

defrost wrote: post #63
Forgeties79 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am arguing it does. Condescending, dismissive responses aren’t arguments. I am not being absolutist, I am saying you are making it impossible to disagree by definition. I am down to discuss this if you want to but this isn’t exactly a great start to a productive conversation.

> but this isn’t exactly a great start to a productive conversation. My thought entirely. Perhaps you think I'm in the camp that believes all good ides come to fruition. My position is that the world is complex, there are "good ideas" that have a time frame, should they not be implemented with that time frame their time has passed and they're no longer good ideas. That said, my response above stands - just because a…

I’m done man

Re: Shooting down ideas is not a skill

#76

Post by notatoad »

gdubs wrote: post #56
dsr_ wrote: post #49

> "I haven't heard any customers request this." "We can't use Python for that, it's too slow." "That introduces too much complexity." "We tried something like that before and it didn't work." "DevOps won't want to support another service." "People are used to the way it works now." > None of these people are wrong or stupid. And none of them have added any value. Bzzt. Since all of these people are correct and smart,…

Congrats, you've killed the idea in its infancy because you demanded answers to questions before it could even walk. Ideas need time to be explored, and given a chance.

>Ideas need time to be explored, and given a chance.

sure, and the time for that is before you bring them to potential critics.

unless a meeting is intended as a brainstorming session where any thought, no matter how unformed, is welcome, meetings are not a time to present your initial unexplored thoughts to colleagues, bosses, or other departments. take a couple days, think about it without spending other people's time, try to imagine people's objections and have answers to them. then present. shouting things out in a meeting before you've considered and come up with answers to the most obvious counter-arguments is just a time-waster.

Re: Shooting down ideas is not a skill

#77

Post by drbojingle »

musicale wrote: post #53
drbojingle wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you can help nurture it. Prehaps instead of speaking how about how it couldn't work think about what you'd need to do to make it work or where it could work. Tend to the garden!

> think about what you'd need to do to make it work "This idea will probably work once we can develop just a few new basic technologies that it depends on (time travel, antigravity, unlimited free energy, faster-than-light communication, ...)"

This guy shoots down ideas.

Re: Shooting down ideas is not a skill

#78

Post by bawolff »

3tkazsT wrote: post #32

Try sheltering every "idea" on an open source issue tracker and report back with a nervous breakdown in a year. Most ideas are stupid and don't work. Startup ideas are increasingly stupid and only work because many startups are know to fail by the investors but used as a vehicle to transport money from A to B with plausible deniability.

Open source bug trackers tend to not appreciate people who just want them to implement someone else's idea without the other person putting effort in. That is true for both good and bad ideas.

Its like going up to a tech person at a party and saying "i have a wonderful idea for an app"

Re: Shooting down ideas is not a skill

#79

Post by draw_down »

dsr_ wrote: post #49

> "I haven't heard any customers request this." "We can't use Python for that, it's too slow." "That introduces too much complexity." "We tried something like that before and it didn't work." "DevOps won't want to support another service." "People are used to the way it works now." > None of these people are wrong or stupid. And none of them have added any value. Bzzt. Since all of these people are correct and smart,…

[dead]

Re: Shooting down ideas is not a skill

#80

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

Funny story. I get called an “idea killer,” because I say things like “The hinge is probably going to wear out. We should figure out how to deal with it.”

That makes me a “negative naysayer.”

I’ve learned to just shrug, and walk away from a lost cause. Sometimes, if I care enough, I can have some remedy ready for when the wheels come off. I can do that, because I’m retired. It’s not so easy, if it’s your job; especially when the hinge wears out, and they throw you under the bus for it.

As an engineer, it has always been my job, to Make Things Happen. Not to prevent them from happening. We usually get paid well, because we do difficult things.

We are going to see some real vibe-coding disasters, in the next few years, but the “negative naysayers” that learn to leverage the new tech, will do some pretty awesome stuff.

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