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German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

bmi.usercontent.opencode.de

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Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#31

Post by AppAttestationz »

bossyTeacher wrote: post #27
AppAttestationz wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, there is still a reliance on the tech giants that produce the phones, who are the o'es embedding the cryptographic keys, to make this end to end attestation work. But in pure technical & UX terms, you don't need to be logged in.

[flagged]

Your whole point is orthogonal to what I said too.

I said the title is misleading, which it is.

Your argument that app attestation should be avoided because big tech company can withhold it is garbage. It holds no water. They can cut off access to the app in general by removing it from the app stores and the devices that have it installed.

American big tech has Europe in a stranglehold, I agree with your sentiment there.

eIDAS can be used with the ID reader on Linux even, there's no lock out. They want to offer a convenient alternative for the normies, in a secure manner, I don't mind.

Edit: my 70 y/o mother even eIDAS authenticates (not germany, other EU country) on Linux Mint. There's no argument for lockout in my anecdotal perspective.

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#32

Post by pojntfx »

raphman wrote: post #10

Mastodon thread on this topic: https://mastodon.social/@pojntfx/116345677794218793 See also this issue from 2025 where the developers responded: https://gitlab.opencode.de/bmi/eudi-wallet/wallet-developmen... AFAICT, there is no mention of an Apple or Google account being required in general - the documentation just lists "signals" that are used to securely authenticate a person - such as Google's/Apple's security ec…

Hey, Fel from the fedi thread here

Explanation: https://mastodon.social/@pojntfx/116345725515845020

There is in practice no known way around it for now, and even less so one for regular people, to use this on a device without a Google account

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#34

Post by whatsupdog »

AppAttestationz wrote: post #26
bossyTeacher wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> App attestation does not require an Apple account nor a google account. For Android, it does limit the ROMs to Google certified ones and requires GMS to be installed. To me, there is no difference between your sentences. You require the blessing of an American company to be able use eIDAS. Google has the power to disable eIDAS at a national scale by making the attestation services treat all devices as not certified…

I made an account because I'm qualified to talk about this topic :-) I've spent a considerable time testing every corner case of UX, and DX of an app attested service. App attestation can fail on simulators, Graphene OS, dev builds, I've seen it all. There is one check you can do to see if an app was side loaded, so indirectly, can require Google account. Title is still misleading though, as it explicitly mentions ac…

Come September, there will be no side loaded apps on Android.

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#35

Post by gnabgib »

whatsupdog wrote: post #34
AppAttestationz wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I made an account because I'm qualified to talk about this topic :-) I've spent a considerable time testing every corner case of UX, and DX of an app attested service. App attestation can fail on simulators, Graphene OS, dev builds, I've seen it all. There is one check you can do to see if an app was side loaded, so indirectly, can require Google account. Title is still misleading though, as it explicitly mentions ac…

Come September, there will be no side loaded apps on Android.

You're behind on your news!

Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps (1196 points, 16 days ago, 1262 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47442690

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#36

Post by 0x_rs »

Does this mean sanctioned individuals, such as those in the International Criminal Court, would be unable to access eIDAS, among other things? As it requires, from my understanding, installing app(s) from the play store, thus requiring an account there and being able to access it, which isn't happening if you're among those or really, in any group that might get the same treatment in the future.

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#37

Post by lucb1e »

jml7c5 wrote: post #6

Is the link broken for anyone else? I'm getting ERR_CONNECTION_CLOSED.

Works for me in Germany. I wonder if it's some overzealous bot protection that's cutting off humans again, in this case from what looks like a government website, but without further testing that's hard to say. You could check if it works from another network, or if other people on your network range have the same issue (like if you're in 13.37.0.0/16 then maybe someone else at the ISP is also in that range and could check if it got blocked outright)

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#38

Post by iamnothere »

0x_rs wrote: post #36

Does this mean sanctioned individuals, such as those in the International Criminal Court, would be unable to access eIDAS, among other things? As it requires, from my understanding, installing app(s) from the play store, thus requiring an account there and being able to access it, which isn't happening if you're among those or really, in any group that might get the same treatment in the future.

If an account is required, then yes. Good catch.

This may not be unwelcome for authorities considering the recent extrajudicial “unpersoning” of many political enemies in the EU.

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#39

Post by lucb1e »

whizzter wrote: post #4
NooneAtAll3 wrote: post #2

what's eIDAS?

EU digital identity law to make inter-EU signatures (And authentication) work. As an example, an EU citizen working in Sweden should be able to submit Swedish tax forms whilst living here by using a digital identity from the originating nation. There are also some standards in place like ETSI standardized extensions to PDF signatures so that you can verify that a signature inside the PDF was actually signed by a spec…

> inter-EU signatures

I assume this should be "intra-EU"? I'm not very familiar with eidas so I'm not sure, but afaik it's about signatures within the EU, not between different EUs (as there is only one in this world). (I hate this inter/intra wording, always have to translate it in my head to understand whether it's like internet (between networks) or like intranet (within a network). Would recommend using "within-" instead of intra whenever it's not already a well-established word, like intranet)

Re: German implementation of eIDAS will require an Apple/Google account to function

#40

Post by Ardon »

cebert wrote: post #30

I am shocked that there isn’t more opposition from the general public to policies like this that erode privacy and freedom. I am a parent and can appreciate the need to control what children do on the internet, but at some point parents need to parent. I fear we’re giving up a lot of freedom and adding unneeded complexity under the guise of keeping children safe.

As far as I can tell, people are getting blitzed. People I know are incredibly deep in their personalized bubble and genuinely aren't even hearing about it. It's genuinely distressing. In general and for the future of democracy.
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