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Why are we still using Markdown?

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Re: Why are we still using Markdown?

#221
post #190
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, the plain text does not look good, and does not offer good control of the typesetting. At least, nearly all markdown I see is almost unreadable in its “raw” state. I’d much rather read manually formatted, monospaced, text. That way, you can use asterisks as bullets, as footnote markers and as emphasis markers all at the same time, and anyone who is familiar with normal typographic conventions will unde…

+1 Not too long ago, I used to think that Markdown was the Bee‘s knees. But having been forced to write some documentation in plaintext, I learned that plaintext is significantly more readable than raw markdown. I think one of Markdown‘s biggest sins is how it handles line breaks. Single line breaks being discarded in the output guarantees that your nicely formatted text will look worse when rendered. I understand th…

> I think one of Markdown‘s biggest sins is how it handles line breaks. Single line breaks being discarded in the output guarantees that your nicely formatted text will look worse when rendered.

My experience has been the complete opposite. Markdown parsers that don’t discard single linebreaks (e.g. GitHub-flavored markdown) turn my nicely formatted text into a ragged mess of partially-filled lines. Or for narrow display widths, an alternating series of long and short lines.

Markdown parsers that correctly discard single linebreaks make sure that the source text (reflowed to fit a max number of characters per line) and the rendered text (reflowed to fit the display width per line) both look reasonable.

Re: Why are we still using Markdown?

#222
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It should turn bold but keep the asterisk displayed so you can still edit as normal. This is just terrible UI, why do you need garbage marks when you already have bold? And you can edit "as normal" if you like, but that only requires displaying asterisks during that tiny % of time you edit the word, not all the time when you read it or edit something else.

This is just a personal preference. I strongly prefer to see the markup as I write it. I can't stand disappearing characters.

Do you enable visibility of tab and space?

Re: Why are we still using Markdown?

#223
post #3

Because, like UNIX/Linux itself, worse is better: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worse_is_better - and perfect is the enemy of "good enough." We want to encourage people to produce written output with minimal friction. Barriers to writing--and especially barriers to producing documentation--should be minimized. Writing well is difficult enough! Markup is overhead. Complex markup is even more overhead. Markdown is the…

Saying, that it is the best compromise we know of is going a little far, I think. There are more readable intuitive formats, but they simply don't have the spread, that markdown formats have.

Re: Why are we still using Markdown?

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also worth remembering that markdown tried very hard to encode conventions that were already used in Usenet, email, and other text media. A > to indicate a quote was widespread Usenet convention. Asterisks or underscores to indicate emphasis was also a common convention; both are legal because both were common. Double asterisk or double underscores to indicate really, really emphasizing something was also a comm…

markdown tried very hard to encode conventions that were already used in Usenet, email, and other text media For those of you who weren't there: *bold* _underline_ ~strikethrough~ /italics/ > Quotation - list - list - list I've been using these for almost half a century. They're much easier and more intuitive than Markdown. I see no compelling reason to change.

Thanks for posting this. I feel like for years we've been getting gaslit by the Markdown guys who inexplicably decided that stars should make text go italic instead of bold. I get it wrong every single time and then have to go back and look up a cheat sheet. It really isn't intuitive at all, and it also doesn't codify how we used to write before rich text entry boxes where available everywhere. Markdown reminds me more of all the custom wiki and forum markups that proliferated in the 2000s than any text-based conventions in use prior.

Re: Why are we still using Markdown?

#225
I was lamenting the other day that we used to have SGML SHORTREF, then XML came along because supposedly SGML is just too hard to parse. But XML is for computers, not for humans. So then we got Markdown, which is worse than where we started from.

Re: Why are we still using Markdown?

#227
I'll give them credit for not just being another "markdown sucks, let's switch to RST" slop article. Even more so as they say they don't have a solution - because a solution would be like asking for 3/3 on "cheap, reliable, fast" or whatever your favorite version of "engineers are paid to make compromises" is.

Markdown is great at small-to-medium documents; LLMs seem to like it too possibly out of a combination of fairly logical design and lots of training examples.

Custom extensions like |||warning\nDisconnect from the internet befor trying this!\n||| get you a bit further and don't tie you into HTML.

The moment you need multiparagraph items including code blocks inside a numbered list that also has an unnumbered list child of which some of the items are images ... the person who set you that task probably doesn't understand good design, but regardless, I find you need something with an explicit tree structure, that is there are markers for both the start and end of each node such as ... . That necessarily makes the document harder to write, though at that complexity it'll probably be hard to read too.

Re: Why are we still using Markdown?

#229
post #198

https://djot.net/ seems to be very sane and still very similar to markdown. And after reading the CommonMark spec, I appreciate the saneness very much. CommonMark did a great job at describing all the rules and edge cases, but it clearly shows how messy markdown is. What do you all think of Djot?

it's amazing

Re: Why are we still using Markdown?

#230

> These 2 produce IDENTICAL output. And this is just the tip of the iceberg? > It has so many poor decisions baked in that if you try to use it it will actively fight against you the moment you think you know what you’re doing. That misses the point. The point of Markdown is simplicity, not perfection. And that is also the reason why Markdown will prevail.

This also misses the point: multiple syntax markers for the same thing is the opposite of simplicity (though that's not the reason why Markdown will fail)
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