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Scientists are working on "everything vaccines"

economist.com

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Re: Scientists are working on "everything vaccines"

#21

Post by xyzzy123 »

zaknil wrote: post #6

> put the lungs into a constant state of readiness, allowing fast responses to almost any invading germ Succeeding at this would prove that our bodies have the capacity to do that but evolution "tuned" the system differently. A corollary would be that this vaccination is probably a net negative for public health, even if nobody'd really know why.

We're not really calorie constrained anymore and most humans live in much denser environments than they used to. You would expect rate of exposure, the rate of mutation / change and the rate at which new pathogens appear to be higher than in the past.

Consequently, you wouldn't necessarily expect ancestral "defaults" to be optimal for modern environments.

Re: Scientists are working on "everything vaccines"

#23

Post by qsera »

tialaramex wrote: post #18
zaknil wrote: post #6

> put the lungs into a constant state of readiness, allowing fast responses to almost any invading germ Succeeding at this would prove that our bodies have the capacity to do that but evolution "tuned" the system differently. A corollary would be that this vaccination is probably a net negative for public health, even if nobody'd really know why.

No. Evolution is not "tuning" it's just statistics at a huge scale. The high likelihood of back pain, the lack of important sensors, broken synthesis pathways, this is not a carefully tuned system, this is just blind luck plus statistics. Which means we can do better because we're purposeful.

>we can do better because we're purposeful.

"Purposeful" does not help if we are mostly clueless.

Re: Scientists are working on "everything vaccines"

#24

Post by qsera »

allreduce wrote: post #11
zaknil wrote: post #6

> put the lungs into a constant state of readiness, allowing fast responses to almost any invading germ Succeeding at this would prove that our bodies have the capacity to do that but evolution "tuned" the system differently. A corollary would be that this vaccination is probably a net negative for public health, even if nobody'd really know why.

I'm in my armchair thinking autoimmune diseases.

But that just means more $$$ for the pharma, so not sure why that would bother them.

Re: Scientists are working on "everything vaccines"

#25

Post by tgv »

neonstatic wrote: post #9
KetoManx64 wrote: post #4

How much you want to bet that you'll have to get a yearly booster shot so their stock prices can keep going up?

As someone who has taken the HPV vaccine, I'd take the other side of that trade. It's been 6 years since covid mania, who is taking these booster shots now? Anyone?

I hadn't since the pandemic was (more or less) over, but last November I got a booster shot, as people seemed to be getting more sick than before. I know someone who (probably) has long-term covid, and you definitely don't want to catch that. However, I always become sick the next day, so I'm not too eager to get it.

Re: Scientists are working on "everything vaccines"

#27

Post by Modified3019 »

zaknil wrote: post #6

> put the lungs into a constant state of readiness, allowing fast responses to almost any invading germ Succeeding at this would prove that our bodies have the capacity to do that but evolution "tuned" the system differently. A corollary would be that this vaccination is probably a net negative for public health, even if nobody'd really know why.

In the agriculture world, application of harpin proteins (https://www3.epa.gov/pesticides/chem_search/reg_actions/regi...) can be used to help treat diseases by inducing a defense response. Mind you, it’s not a standalone treatment, but helps make applications of fungicides and the like far more effective.

Pathogen defenses can roughly be thought of having a metabolic cost at the very least. Meaning if there’s no selection pressure (such as death) otherwise, then it often ends up being more optimal to not have a defense active until it’s needed.

Problem is we have a global distribution system that is forcing organisms that have previously evolved into an equilibrium with the disease complex in their area, to encounter multiple novel threats in rapid succession. Like how aggressive species of downy and powdery mildews are now everywhere in the US. Giving plants a boost by inducing defenses early on helps them resist the onset of infection and helps treatment succeed.

Re: Scientists are working on "everything vaccines"

#29

Post by gignico »

zaknil wrote: post #6

> put the lungs into a constant state of readiness, allowing fast responses to almost any invading germ Succeeding at this would prove that our bodies have the capacity to do that but evolution "tuned" the system differently. A corollary would be that this vaccination is probably a net negative for public health, even if nobody'd really know why.

Evolution is not a process toward better quality of life and life expectancy of individuals. As long as enough individuals can reach the age to procreate in their environment evolution is done. Evolution didn’t train our bodies to reject the diseases we already have the vaccines for neither, so your reasoning would apply to smallpox as well. And what about viruses appeared after Homo sapiens evolved (such as HIV)?

Re: Scientists are working on "everything vaccines"

#30

Post by lifeisgood99 »

qsera wrote: post #23
tialaramex wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Evolution is not "tuning" it's just statistics at a huge scale. The high likelihood of back pain, the lack of important sensors, broken synthesis pathways, this is not a carefully tuned system, this is just blind luck plus statistics. Which means we can do better because we're purposeful.

>we can do better because we're purposeful. "Purposeful" does not help if we are mostly clueless.

There's no wise guiding force behind evolution. It's all guesswork.
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