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F-15E jet shot down over Iran

theguardian.com

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Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran

#771

During the entire gulf war (Iraq, 1990-91), only two F-15s were shot down via surface-to-air engagement. At the time, Baghdad was known to have the highest density of SAM protection out of any city in the world. An F-15 being shot down in Iran after weeks of strategic bombing of their anti-air defense systems is not a good sign.

"Only the best people..."

Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran

#772
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US doesn't hold itself to the conventions, why should the country it started a war of aggression with?

If you throw away your principles because you are fighting an unprincipled enemy, you are no better than them.

They tried restraint and proportionality for decades and where did that get them? 47 years of non-stop aggression, espionage, sanctions and the mass deaths of Iranian civilians.

Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran

#773
post #664
post #59

I hope the aviators are OK, and also hope whoever they were bombing are also OK. I do wonder if Iran finds them first, will they treat them better than the US treated survivors of the ship sunk by a US torpedo in the Indiana Ocean?

If you're suggesting that the US submarine should have rescued the survivors - with respect I think you don't understand how submarines work. They have no capability to perform rescue operations. They have no way to handle mass numbers of injuries, there's normally just one corpsman (basically a medic) on board. Even if they want to do a rescue operation they have no place to put them. Subs barely have room for their…

Subs in WW2 rescued survivors all the time until the US bombed a rescue operation and ended the gentleman's agreement.

https://www.beachesofnormandy.com/didyouknow/Did_you_know_wh...

There was zero threat to that American submarine, they fired on an unarmed ship that the US Navy had just held ceremonial activities with literally days prior. Absolutely disgusting behaviour but we can't expect anything less from the Americans unfortunately.

Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran

#774

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that reliable? The IRGC basically runs the economy and takes a significant cut. The IGRC is also separate from the military. The nuclear program, quite obviously for military use, may also not be included. What about support for proxy groups? Hezbollah alone gets support above $1B per year.

I was aware of the IRGC graft. I tried to check the amounts normalized for % of GDP. Conservative estimates put them at half of the 2% GDP military spend. However, the IRGC's tentacles are also estimated to siphon off something like +50% of the GDP.[0] Not all of that money's going to military hardware, but they have a substantial slush fund and use the Iranian resource base as a military piggy bank. [0] https://fort…

Not just that, but the IRGC cronies have massive overseas investments bought with stolen money: https://www.transparency.org.uk/news/londons-role-irans-fina...

Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran

#775
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the altitudes they've been flying at, shoulder mounted MANPADs are a viable option.

US also has A-10s doing gun runs in Iraq too. It makes sense the US is more willing to take risks 1-month into the war given how effective they've been and for Iran to also adapt their manpad teams after they probably failed a ton of times previously. You saw the same pattern where Ukraine and Russia both constantly adapted on the battlefield and the war changed rapidly over the first year.

It has two fewer of them as of this afternoon

Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran

#776

Military aviators train for this, being alone behind enemy lines (look up SERE school if you’re curious, one of the craziest training courses outside of special forces) and there is a special force just for aviator recovery behind enemy lines, US AirForce Pararescue. Hopefully they’ll get the aviators back quickly, the last thing our country needs is American hostages making this ridiculous war harder to stop.

American hostages

Poor choice of words. Hostage taking is illegal, but any captured US aviators would be prisoners of war, whose detention is entirely legal as long as they're treated humanely.

Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran

#777
post #733

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ship was an unarmed vessel on its way to a goodwill visit to Sri Lanka and coming from an international maritime exercise hosted by India, which the United States also attended and participated in. The US torpedoed it, and when it sank, the US did not apparently attempt to rescue any of the Dena's crew. Fortunately, Sri Lanka showed up and saved 30 people. Mind you, the details of war are not always clear. The US…

If you think a warship is ever 'unarmed' I have a bridge to sell you.

ship used for naval exercise uses different software and payload (non-explosive). additionally, that ship also bring navy band performing in host parade days prior.

Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran

#778
post #754
post #694

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iraq and Afghanistan were mistakes. But this is next level. When it started I thought Iran would be crushed. Ignorant, silly me. There is every chance the USA will have to stop its attacks before achieving any goals. An education, thus is, that I could do without. In New Zealand we will probably run out of diesel soon. This is so stupid, so sadistic and cruel

Only one of the combatants is shooting at civilian shipping

Both are shooting at civilians

Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran

#779
post #36
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prisoner of war, not hostage. edit: I'm baffled by the amount of downvotes pointing out the objectively correct terminology can get. Its not a matter of opinion, military personnel captured by the enemy are pow no matter their treatment. A hostage, by definition, has been abducted.

That is assuming Iran holds itself to the Geneva conventions, which ... seems like an extremely risky bet to make.

I have a LOT more trust in Iran following the Geneva conventions than I do the US.

Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran

#780

The Hormuz issue proves that the west never had an ability to economically sanction Iran, au contraire Iran can actually sanction us - and they are. This is what real sanctions look like. The west broke the deal, attacked like terrorists, and are now being sanctioned.

Correction - Israel and the US broke the deal, and now the rest of us in the west are also being sanctioned
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