Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you think threats and missiles from an adversary are insufficient cause for war?
Yes. They didn't attack the US. We attacked them with no casus belli. Operation Epstein Fuckup.
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F-15E jet shot down over Iran
711–720 of 1001 posts
Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran
#712Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is assuming Iran holds itself to the Geneva conventions, which ... seems like an extremely risky bet to make.
What has Iran done to show it would not uphold Geneva conventions?
When they struck desalination plants in Bahrain would be an easy example. You can say that they are retaliatory strikes, but they are certainly against the Geneva Conventions.
Iran's use of cluster munitions to attack swaths of Israeli cities is also against the Geneva Convention (though I'd again point out that we started hitting civilian targets in Iran first).
Both sides have violated the conventions, but the US and Israel have violated them to a much greater degree (especially Israel and all their attacks on Lebanese civilians not to mention razing Gaza).
Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran
#713Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are 4 players in this war and they all have very different goals and "victory" conditions. 1. Israel wants to ruin Iran permanently, to turn it into Somalia 2.0, meaning a quasi-state with no organized, central government. Were they to succeed in this it would be a humantarian disaster the likes of which we haven't seen since probably WW2. Tens of millions of refugees that will probably collapse surrounding cou…
> Iran no longer trusts the US as a good faith actor and negotiator Iran ("the regime") was never a good faith actor or negotiator. Their position was something like "we won't develop nuclear weapons as long as we have free reign to torture our own citizens and fund violent groups that destabilize regional governments". And still marched on enriching uranium anyway. There's nothing to trust on either side. This war w…
> Their position was something like "we won't develop nuclear weapons as long as we have free reign to torture our own citizens and fund violent groups that destabilize regional governments"
This is unfortunately the best possible outcome. Nuclear weapons have been around for 80 years now. They are quite achievable by modern states, and they are obviously the only path to sovereignty. Ukraine, North Korea, and Iran have affirmed it.
Bombing a country in pursuit only reaffirms this logic, especially after agreements have already been made or negotiations are under way.
The only path forward, for Iran and everyone else, has been established and stable since ~1945: give people major concessions in exchange for the major concession that they will not try to achieve true sovereignty via nuclear weapons.
Every attempt to bomb or coerce someone off of the nuclear trajectory just increases the motivation (globally) to pursue it with more vigor and more secrecy.
We're on this tightrope until we fall off it, no other options.
Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran
#714I hope the aviators are OK, and also hope whoever they were bombing are also OK. I do wonder if Iran finds them first, will they treat them better than the US treated survivors of the ship sunk by a US torpedo in the Indiana Ocean?
The crew of the IRIS Dena were warned twice by the US to abandon ship according to a report from one of the sailor’s father. They refused. Not sure if it’s possible to treat enemies better than that. And I doubt the Iranians will treat a US pilot well. Look at how they treat their own citizens.
> Not sure if it’s possible to treat enemies better than that.
If you can't imagine how, that says a lot about you.
Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran
#715Earlier quoted context omitted.
Trump has a loyal hardcore, but he is absolutely bleeding supporters around the edges. If you follow the US right many of them are pledging to vote democrat in the midterms as a protest.
I noticed a wave of that right as trump declared war (declared conflict, whatever), people going "I voted for no new wars," but I noticed on /r/conservative that the takes quickly gave way to sudden concern about Iran's nuclear capability as the propaganda mills got their fodder in order.
So many hidden comments there
Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran
#716Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran
#717Earlier quoted context omitted.
The US is busy shooting “drug boats” with no evidence, that is who they are now
I thought the people claiming they might be fishing boats with no fishing gear, 55gallon drums, in specially designed hulls with 6 engines, hauling ass out of known drug ports were just joking.
Yeah, why check right? Not like we need evidence or any investigation…
I saw some people leaving a known drug house yesterday, but fortunately I gunned down the whole family, no questions asked!
Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran
#718Earlier quoted context omitted.
By that same logic that fact that we only lost 1 F-15 in, what, almost 3 weeks of bombing is actually a pretty good sign. Especially when you factor in that the Russians (proven) and Chinese (yet to be proven) are assisting Iran and Iran has been buying and building all of this military infrastructure at the expense of living conditions for its people just for this very attack, only to have almost everything oblitera…
> By that same logic that fact that we only lost 1 F-15 in, what, almost 3 weeks of bombing is actually a pretty good sign. "Good sign" of what, though? Air superiority? I guess, sure. But we've constructed a strategic situation for ourselves where mere air superiority is losing . The straight remains closed. Because let's be blunt: if we can't reliably fly a F-15E or A-10 in the region, there's no way an oil company…
The toll is cheap I think, between one and two dollar a barrel, so less than 2 million per boat. Honestly a good price to end the war.
Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran
#719I see a ton of bickering, however, I simply have to ask the question: how can anyone justify the United States of America and Israel attacking ANY country? It isn't our job, nor is it Israel's, to try and be the world police. People are dying, and because of a certain corpse-to-be controlling MY country, the world is beginning to suffer and it is going to get so much worse. Some economists are saying gas rationing wi…
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List the number of attacks on America by Iran. Now list the number of attacks from our "allies" like the Saudis or Israel.
Words don't matter as much as actions and the biggest attacks on the US by countries in the ME were done by Israel and Saudi Arabia.
Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran
#720I think an A-10 is also down (pilot ejected and safe). I'm surprised that they decided to fly an A-10 into Iran. I mean it's a solid plane that can sustain some AD fire, but at the same time it usually operates within the height that MANPADs can reach.
Considering the number of friendly fire incidents these moronic planes cause, Iran would probably be better off leaving them be.
All CAS can cause friendly fire, but that doesn't remove the need for CAS.
The A-10 flies slower and closer than our fighter jets which means they have more time to assess the situation before taking action.