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Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

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Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#191

Post by bleepblap »

SkyPuncher wrote: post #110
charcircuit wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can set the monthly extra usage cap to $1000 or something to cap how much it can cost per month. https://support.claude.com/en/articles/12429409-manage-extra...

That's a had sell to a finance team.

Sounds backwards -- your company is getting the benefits of your increased productivity and doesn't want to pay for it. Im not sure that's Anthropics problem?

It's like I was a graphic designer and my finance company said "photoshop is too expensive". I wouldn't be mad at Adobe for it

Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#192

Post by colechristensen »

g-mork wrote: post #108
colechristensen wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every service is being sold at a deep discount chasing market share, but it's not lasting forever.

Speaking only personally of course, I'm completely over the chat idiom in almost every way. Where is all this future demand coming from? By the time Android lands a God mode ultimate voice assistant it's pretty much guaranteed I will be well beyond the point where I'd want to use it. The whole thing is starting to remind me of 3G video calling where the networks thought it'd change everything, and by the end of it wi…

I don't understand this perspective. I can't imaging a point where I won't want to ask "what's the weather like?" "please turn off the lights" "what is the airspeed of an unladen swallow?" likewise chatting through directing it to build something or solve a problem, voice or typing will each have their place.

And video calling did take off, plenty of people use facetime and almost everybody working in an office uses some form of video calls. Criticizing the early attempts at getting video calling working because they hadn't taken off yet (I remember them being advertised on "video phones" with 56k modems), of course someone was going to have the idea and implement before it was quite reasonable.

Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#193

Post by operatingthetan »

stavros wrote: post #172
operatingthetan wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you were using API tokens already, this doesn’t affect you. Why are you quitting in protest?

Three Max subscriptions.

So they were breaking the TOS anyway

Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#194

Post by goosejuice »

jmalicki wrote: post #190
goosejuice wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you're saying is conceptually true for subscription services in general, but thats not why they are making this change. There's a 5 hour limit and a weekly limit. Those are hard token limits. Everyone on a plan pays for the max set of tokens in that plan. The limits manage capacity. The solution to that isn't a change of ToS, it's adjusting the limits. In other words this is about Anthropic subsidizing their own…

You aren't paying to be using that limit all of the time. You are paying to be using that limit some of the time. There are 5 hour windows when you are sleeping and can't use it. There are weekend limits. Theoretically you can max out every 5 hour window, but they lose money on that. It's structured so users can have bursts of unlimited usage, and spend ~15% of the theoretical max cap, and that's still cheaper than a…

> Theoretically you can max out every 5 hour window, but they lose money on that.

Then it's not priced correctly. As I said, you can do all of this without OpenClaw.. claude code ships with everything you need to maximize the limits.

Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#197

Post by code_duck »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #112
tekacs wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenAI have literally gone out of their way to explicitly support this sort of thing. As they did with OpenCode. Honestly, this just looks like what Dylan of SemiAnalysis suggested on Dwarkesh – that they've massively under-provisioned capacity / under-spent on infrastructure. That would honestly be a comforting answer if true, because I would gladly take 'we can't afford to do this right now' over 'we are self-prefe…

> we are self-preferencing, and the FTC should really take a look at us, even if we're technically not a monopoly right now Tell me you have zero clue what a monopoly is or what the law is, without telling me. Monopoly law relies on broad categories, not narrow ones. You can’t call Microsoft a monopoly because they are the only company that makes Windows. You can’t call Amazon a monopoly because they are the only com…

Somehow this was coming up a few years ago where people kept saying that Apple could face antitrust because they were the only company who made iOS and controlled the App Store. Given that android exists, and has roughly equal market share, that didn’t make much sense to me, but I kept seeing it being discussed.

Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#198

Post by hombre_fatal »

goosejuice wrote: post #160
jesse_dot_id wrote: post #73

There seem to be a ton of people who don't understand how subscription services work. Every single one of them oversells their capacity. The power users that use the services a lot are subsidized by those who don't use it as much, which tends to be the vast majority of the user base. OpenClaw is an autonomous power user. The growing adoption of this walking attack surface was either going to A) cause the cost of Clau…

What you're saying is conceptually true for subscription services in general, but thats not why they are making this change. There's a 5 hour limit and a weekly limit. Those are hard token limits. Everyone on a plan pays for the max set of tokens in that plan. The limits manage capacity. The solution to that isn't a change of ToS, it's adjusting the limits. In other words this is about Anthropic subsidizing their own…

The trade-off is that if you set your usage limits so that you can handle the case where everyone is saturating their limit at all times, then (1) the usage limits would be too small and (2) you're optimizing for a usage pattern that doesn't exist and (3) you're severely underprovisioning, which is worse for everyone.

Instead, you can prioritize people "earnestly" bursting to the usage limits, like the users who are actually sitting at their computer using the service over someone's server saturating the limit 24/7.

The goal is to have different tiers for manual users vs automated/programmatic tools. Not just Anthropic, this is how we design systems in general.

Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#199

Post by kristopolous »

evbogue wrote: post #189

How does Anthropic detect that a person is using OpenClaw vs using Claude Code? Forgive me if someone asked this already and I can't find it in the comments.

It's probably just the header.

headers['X-Title']

You can change that

The other simple method is to only accept certain system prompts

I've been meaning to do some dumb little proxy system where all your i/o can pass through any specified system such as a web page, harness, whatever...

Essentially a local model toolcalls to an "Oracle" which is just something like a wrapper around Claude code or anything you've figured out how to scrape and then you talk to the small model that mostly uses the Oracle and.... There you go.

There's certainly i/o shuffling and latency but given model speeds and throughput it'll be relatively very small

Now people probably care

Doesn't mean I know how to market it, I'll certainly fail at that, but at least I can build it

Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#200

Post by tinyhouse »

I really started to like Pi. That's unfortunate that I won't be able to use it with Opus (way too expensive without a subscription). I'm optimistic that open source coding models will be able to keep up. AI is too important, we're shooting ourselves in the foot if we don't adopt open source tools and models. The more adoption the better it will become.
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