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Why are we still using Markdown?

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Re: Why are we still using Markdown?

#111
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Objectively false. Please stop spreading misinformation.

I can think of a lot of potentially false things in the statement. The biggest falsehood likely is the perception that one needs Emacs. :-)

You kind of do need Emacs though, as far as I know it is the only existing fully compatible implementation. As soon as the file is outside that environment, all bets are off. I tried using org-mode instead of Markdown once, not for long.

Re: Why are we still using Markdown?

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, you can also choose not to say it on your own blog.

Why the heck would you use the phrase "Why the heck" in any circumstance other than to avoid censorship/algorithmic penality on a social media platform?

These things tend to get ingrained in you so you continue to use them even if you could technically use the words they replace.

Re: Why are we still using Markdown?

#113

I've thought about this a bit too, and instead of a straight escape hatch to html when any special formatting is necessary, it might make sense to bind css to particular elements like so: ##[color:red] Heading 2 or using code blocks with particular headers which render out as normal text with the styling applied, like this: ```styling: 'ruleset here...' Lorem Ipsum Dolor ``` this does require a lot of work to conside…

cf `# Heading 2 { attributes}` in pandoc:

https://pandoc.org/demo/example33/8.3-headings.html#extensio...

There are also attributes for image position/size, etc.

Re: Why are we still using Markdown?

#114
post #113

I've thought about this a bit too, and instead of a straight escape hatch to html when any special formatting is necessary, it might make sense to bind css to particular elements like so: ##[color:red] Heading 2 or using code blocks with particular headers which render out as normal text with the styling applied, like this: ```styling: 'ruleset here...' Lorem Ipsum Dolor ``` this does require a lot of work to conside…

cf `# Heading 2 { attributes}` in pandoc: https://pandoc.org/demo/example33/8.3-headings.html#extensio... There are also attributes for image position/size, etc.

This is sweet!

Re: Why are we still using Markdown?

#115
A few things here.

1. Use a proper Markdown parser. The grammar is easy to define EBNF style most implementations I see now days use some recursive descent parser, etc… Regex implementation was used in original authors parser when it became popular.

2. You can resolve ambiguities and define more consistent symbols that make sense. Most markdown implementations are decent and follow common sense best practice syntax.

3. The beauty is its simplicity. You can pick it up in a few minutes and utilize it anywhere you damn near see a text box.

4. Parsing to HTML isn’t the only option! I mostly use TUI markdown viewers that render the document via ANSI escape codes beautifully. Check out glow project. But once you parse and have a AST, you can easily walk it and render it in other ways as well. Again though. Everyone can read a text document and a html document. You can render it to a PDF if need be.

5. Do we really need a whole new markup text2? Markdown is simple fast and widely supported. So I have to say.. I prefer it over most things and that includes Rst.

If you need real beauty and power you can move to LaTeX or something… My two cents anyway.

Re: Why are we still using Markdown?

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Markdown is pretty far from the worst. It's decent and unobtrusive. Worst would be something like Troff or jira formatting. Midtier would be RST.

Ugh, troff. It's mind-boggling that the closest way to have an actual (hyper)link in a manpage is to use your pager's "search for text" function. No, "JuSt usE gNu iNfO it'S beTtER" is not an answer either.

groff can produce output with links in it, and does by default in HTML mode! The GNU version of the Unix man page macro set has .UR and .UE for “URI start” and “URI end”. (I don't know whether these were present earlier in the lineage or whether they were introduced by GNU.) Also, the lowdown Markdown converter when in man output mode will output those for links. For fun, try:

    echo 'Hi there! Have a [hyperlink](https://www.gnu.org/software/groff/manual/groff.html).' | lowdown -st man | groff -man -Thtml
There's also support for OSC 8 terminal hyperlink sequences throughout most of the groff toolchain: grotty(1) supports outputting them, and less(1) supports passing them through, including ^O^P and ^O^N gestures for moving between them. But man(7) says they're not enabled for grotty output by default. “Options” describes the rationale in its item for “-rU1”: “grohtml enables them by default; grotty does not, pending more widespread pager support for OSC 8 escape sequences.”

So if I set MANROFFOPT=-rU1 in the environment, I can get clickable links in man… if the man page author included them that way in the first place. I'm not sure how common that is in the wild, but grepping the ones on my system, I find firejail(1) contains a link to a GitHub issue embedded in that way, and it does indeed work when I hit ^O^N to seek to it and then C-mouse1—though the mouse gesture I have Alacritty using for links doesn't seem to work through tmux (there might be a way involving twiddling the tmux terminal-features setting, but I ran out of steam before trying this), and I didn't see a great way to get either grotty or Alacritty to style them on display instead of having them blend into the surrounding text, so it's still kind of scuffed in practice. (Though I bet the cool kids have moved on from Alacritty by now?) less displays the link target in the status line when you use the navigation commands, so it's not inaccessible, but for opening selected links directly from less with the ^O^O gesture rather than leaning on terminal support, it looks like you need to explicitly set the LESS_OSC8_ANY and/or LESS_OSC8_‹scheme› environment variable to a shell command that outputs a shell command pattern to substitute the link into; if I set LESS_OSC8_ANY='echo xdg-open %o' then it passes it to my Firefox. I wonder if they'd take a patch (or if any existing distributions patch it) to use that as the default?

That was a fun little rabbit hole to go down, thank you.

Re: Why are we still using Markdown?

#118
I like HTML and will use it for my own projects, but I cannot send pure HTML to someone who's not a into tech, so to speak, and expect them to actually read it. It doesn't take much CSS to make a readable web page, and I actually kind of like the barebones no-CSS HTML style, but for many others, that style reads as 'this page is broken'. I guess I can write all my styles inline or in the header, but that's a big ask when I never do that normally.

Markdown though, especially if you're not using way too much of it and mostly using it sensibly, just to give your document some structure, can be read as plain text by pretty much everyone, and will be implicitly understood. Sure, they might not understand the exact different between a word with asterisks on either side and one with underscores on either side, but they'll get that you meant to emphasise that work. They'll also understand a list shown with asterisks, while and tags will get too verbose for them and clutter the actual content (I don't really care, but I get why they do).

Re: Why are we still using Markdown?

#119
This may be the first time my reaction to an objectively terrible programming language is a shrug and a "whatever". I like using markdown. I use it for journaling in Obsidian. It does everything I want it to. I like that it's just flat files. I don't want my journaling to be stuck in some online database.

Yet, I am the same person who refuses to code in anything but Rust due to how not-awful it feels to me. Strange how a person can hold a completely opposite view for two instances of the same problem. Being human in a nutshell.

Re: Why are we still using Markdown?

#120
post #3

Because, like UNIX/Linux itself, worse is better: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worse_is_better - and perfect is the enemy of "good enough." We want to encourage people to produce written output with minimal friction. Barriers to writing--and especially barriers to producing documentation--should be minimized. Writing well is difficult enough! Markup is overhead. Complex markup is even more overhead. Markdown is the…

> worse is better

It's a very old idea

  In the paper, Copernicus postulated the principle that "bad money drives out good", which later came to be referred to as Gresham's law after a later describer, Sir Thomas Gresham. This phenomenon had been noted earlier by Nicole Oresme, but Copernicus rediscovered it independently. Gresham's law is still known in Poland and Central and Eastern Europe as the Copernicus-Gresham Law.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monetae_cudendae_ratio
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