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Oracle files H-1B visa petitions amid mass layoffs

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Re: Oracle files H-1B visa petitions amid mass layoffs

#181

Post by midnightclubbed »

hackthemack wrote: post #118

I find the topic of the morality or effectiveness of having a H-1B a little bit intractable to reason about rationally. Consider a simplified model of the system. You have 2 countries, C1 and C2. Scenario 1: C1 has enough demand for 100 tech jobs. C1 only has 50 qualified natives for 100 tech jobs. The wages of C1 go up because there is more demand than supply. Scenario 2: C1 has enough demand for 100 tech jobs. C1 o…

Scenario 2 now has country C1 with 100 tech workers, and they got their pick of the 50 best workers from (lower paying) country 2.

Country 1 is now a better place to start a new company or expand your existing company because all the best workers in the field work in country 1. Starting the same business in country 2 will almost certainly fail.

This is literally why the Bay Area became the world’s most important tech hub and isolationism will allow (and is allowing) Chinese tech to jump ahead of the US. The government doesn’t care about losing a literal arms race, largely to reduce the political power of California. By no longer educating and welcoming the world’s brightest engineers the USA is going to be reduced to support and manufacturing roles where its large workforce will have to compete with everyone else and salaries will tumble.

Re: Oracle files H-1B visa petitions amid mass layoffs

#182

Post by JumpCrisscross »

noosphr wrote: post #171
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> real wage growth. Something that's not existed since the 1970s Real wages are 15% higher than they were in 1979 [1]. [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q

That is not hourly earnings. Americans are working longer than they did in 1970. On top of that even if we take your link at face value that's a 0.35% growth per year. The medieval warm period had faster wage growth.

> That is not hourly earnings

Hourly earnings (nominal) have grown at 3.2% per year between 2006 and 2025 [1]. Inflation in that interval was 2.7% [2].

> Americans are working longer than they did in 1970

Source? These data show hours worked are down [3].

[1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CES0500000003

[2] https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=1&year1=200601...

[3] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=18H2H

Re: Oracle files H-1B visa petitions amid mass layoffs

#183

Post by declan_roberts »

avidiax wrote: post #153
BeetleB wrote: post #134

To all the folks here complaining that there is plenty of talent in the US to fill those roles: Honestly tell me: Would you ever apply to Oracle for a job?

I actually have applied, and I got the offer. And I didn't take it. Because Oracle is known for poor working conditions. Why can Oracle continue to hire good talent despite offering poor working conditions? H1-B. Is it circular? Absolutely. There really should be a strict maximum percentage of visa hires for any particular job type at a company. Say, 2x the overall average for that job category, and never to exceed 3…

They have no incentive to improve their compensation and working conditions while they can import unlimited indentured servants from poor countries.

Re: Oracle files H-1B visa petitions amid mass layoffs

#185

Post by supliminal »

rdtsc wrote: post #8

Wherever their major offices are look for newspapers in the small towns nearby advertising for "Software developers for Oracle" all written in the tiniest print, right next to classified that sell used bikes, car parts and other stuff. - "Well, Uncle Sam, we looked so hard in US and nobody answered our job posts, we have to go to ... $othercountry to hire, there is no other way"

Do you have any evidence to back that up?

Re: Oracle files H-1B visa petitions amid mass layoffs

#186

Post by fhn »

BeetleB wrote: post #134

To all the folks here complaining that there is plenty of talent in the US to fill those roles: Honestly tell me: Would you ever apply to Oracle for a job?

If your haven't been paid in a 6 months, then yes? A job is a means to an end - you don't have love or even like your job.

Re: Oracle files H-1B visa petitions amid mass layoffs

#187

Post by declan_roberts »

fooker wrote: post #137
moshegramovsky wrote: post #22

I don't understand why American workers would support this program at this scale. Furthermore, I believe universities and other similar researchy/affiliated non-profits are exempt from the hiring caps. I just cannot imagine executives at tech companies/body shops having any positive ethical motivations. More like "they'll do what we say without complaining or they'll go home". There's no way it's not just a hugely ab…

There's not much preventing you from starting a company and not hiring immigrants. This is something I'd encourage everyone with strong opinions about work visas to try and accomplish. You don't change a system by crying about it on anonymous internet forums, you do it by competing against it and making it redundant.

It's better to stop a bad program at the source and improve the lives all of American software engineers.

Re: Oracle files H-1B visa petitions amid mass layoffs

#188

Post by declan_roberts »

some_random wrote: post #92
moshegramovsky wrote: post #22

I don't understand why American workers would support this program at this scale. Furthermore, I believe universities and other similar researchy/affiliated non-profits are exempt from the hiring caps. I just cannot imagine executives at tech companies/body shops having any positive ethical motivations. More like "they'll do what we say without complaining or they'll go home". There's no way it's not just a hugely ab…

It was really easy to support when tech jobs were plentiful, well compensated, and fun.

And before large language models.

Re: Oracle files H-1B visa petitions amid mass layoffs

#189

Post by b112 »

janalsncm wrote: post #130
pj_mukh wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to cut through the headline here. The largest chunk of Oracle layoffs were in India [1]. In comparison, they've barely fired any American workers. Contrary to popular opinion, IT workers aren't interchangeable and there exist a large swath of jobs that very few people qualify for (HN should know this) because of the specialization required. America is at near full employment [2]. Replacing American workers with…

> America is at near full employment Pretty sure that is the U3 rate which only counts people as unemployed if they are actively looking for a job. The U6 is better and rarely falls below 5%: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/U6RATE

Same issue in my country with employment rates. Yes, some of those have been looking for work for so long that they slide from looking to "not looking" automatically. However at the same time, some of those people actually don't want to work.

And if they don't want to work, why would that impinge upon full employment, because what is the plan? Force people to work who are retired, or don't want to? Work or go to jail? "Full employment" is always presumed to be "people wanting to work can find it".

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