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F-15E jet shot down over Iran

theguardian.com

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Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran

#541

Post by computerex »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #492
ok_dad wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK if I come to your car, declare you’re my enemy, and tell you to get out before I toss a Molotov at you, does that mean I can’t be tried for murder later if you refuse? This was a sneak attack outside of an established war zone, for an illegal war, so don’t try to conflate this as an attack on America’s enemies. The USA made them their enemies themselves.

[flagged]

They were in international waters. This was literally a war crime according to international law. Even the killing of the Supreme leader was against international law.

Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran

#543

Post by ajross »

ericmay wrote: post #198
carefree-bob wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the first Iraq war, the KARI system in Iraq, which was built by Thompson-CSF, had its specifications leaked and the US obtained access to back doors and codes that allowed it to bypass and/or disable much of that system. You need to remember that the US and much of the West had friendly relations with Iraq and provided some infrastructure assistance and military support because Iraq invaded Iran. No such analogous…

By that same logic that fact that we only lost 1 F-15 in, what, almost 3 weeks of bombing is actually a pretty good sign. Especially when you factor in that the Russians (proven) and Chinese (yet to be proven) are assisting Iran and Iran has been buying and building all of this military infrastructure at the expense of living conditions for its people just for this very attack, only to have almost everything oblitera…

> By that same logic that fact that we only lost 1 F-15 in, what, almost 3 weeks of bombing is actually a pretty good sign.

"Good sign" of what, though? Air superiority? I guess, sure. But we've constructed a strategic situation for ourselves where mere air superiority is losing.

The straight remains closed. Because let's be blunt: if we can't reliably fly a F-15E or A-10 in the region, there's no way an oil company is going to bet its crew and cargo.

Honestly the best situation here is that Iran merely decides to toll the straight. That's "losing" too, but at least one with a merely "large financial overhead" on international energy traffic instead of a disastrous 15% off the top cut in capacity.

Iran is winning. This is the difference between tactics and strategy.

Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran

#544

Post by overfeed »

dlev_pika wrote: post #507
feb012025 wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're mistaken about who congress is beholden to at this particular point in time... The war has record low approval ratings, even among Trump's base.

I’m just hoping Schumer doesn’t advocate for merging with IDF, if the GOP loses the majority

Joe and Eileen Bailey[1] support the war, which is why Schumer is staying tight-lipped.

1. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2007/03/19/imaginary-frie...

Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran

#545

Post by bigyabai »

partiallypro wrote: post #479
asadotzler wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

You don't have to forget anything, just contextualize it. The United States already tried installing a puppet government in Iran and it went terribly. They were so unpopular that the CIA set up state-sponsored torture rings to quell dissent: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAVAK

Going back to the old way foments instability that jeopardizes the Gulf States, with precisely zero upsides to anyone that isn't a net oil exporter (namely, the US and Russia). If this was about protecting against genocide then the US would be invading Sudan and Gaza, not Iran. The death toll has nothing to do with how American leadership sees this conflict, and it has been like that for over half of a century.

Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran

#546

Post by 0cf8612b2e1e »

rootusrootus wrote: post #457
epolanski wrote: post #448

> A particular concern, they said, was threats made by the US to Iran’s energy infrastructure. “International law protects from attack objects indispensable to the survival of civilians, and the attacks threatened by Trump, if implemented, could entail war crimes.” I am not going to lie, I am beyond disgusted at the United States. And the "it's Trump" card doesn't work, Americans defend this travesty of an old non fu…

It was a pretty solid setup when everyone wanted it to succeed. We will get a few more safeties put in place via statute after this experience, of course, but what really needs to happen is meaningful improvements to the Constitution. We know enough now to spot plenty of weak points which could be addressed. When I'm feeling particularly spicy I think a Constitutional Convention would be seriously awesome. But then I…

The bulk of our politicians are fully corrupt, and you believe there could be a positive outcome for rewriting the constitution?

Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran

#547

Post by rootusrootus »

0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #546
rootusrootus wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was a pretty solid setup when everyone wanted it to succeed. We will get a few more safeties put in place via statute after this experience, of course, but what really needs to happen is meaningful improvements to the Constitution. We know enough now to spot plenty of weak points which could be addressed. When I'm feeling particularly spicy I think a Constitutional Convention would be seriously awesome. But then I…

The bulk of our politicians are fully corrupt, and you believe there could be a positive outcome for rewriting the constitution?

I thought I made it clear that I don't generally think that would be a good idea. I think it would be interesting, which I sometimes think might be worth the risk. Certainly discontent with the status quo is a broadly held sentiment not at all unique to the current right wing.

Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran

#548

Post by hajile »

timcobb wrote: post #250
roadbuster wrote: post #116

During the entire gulf war (Iraq, 1990-91), only two F-15s were shot down via surface-to-air engagement. At the time, Baghdad was known to have the highest density of SAM protection out of any city in the world. An F-15 being shot down in Iran after weeks of strategic bombing of their anti-air defense systems is not a good sign.

You can't really take out "the whole" air defense system because there will always be folks out with MANPAD-type things, those will score hits on occasion. That's probably what we saw here. I doubt MANPADs were nearly as common in the early 90s as they are today.

The videos we've seen match up with what we've seen on the ground. They are all running a custom software we haven't seen elsewhere and don't seem to be traditional MANPADS in any way.

We know Iran is driving around bongo trucks with small SAM systems on the back that use passive IRST rather than radar. The missiles themselves have the capability to cruise in the air for some period of time searching for a target before kicking in the engine for a last, fast sprint to the target. Because they are electro-optical (and piloted by a human), even early-warning and flare deployments won't do very much against a skilled operator.

Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran

#549

Post by jasomill »

harambae wrote: post #419
zabzonk wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US did it all the time in Vietnam.

Not sure if it was actually used, but a fun idea for pilot recovery.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiller_ROE_Rotorcycle

The Fulton recovery system[1] using a self-inflating balloon was used in production.

Though if Iranian air defenses are capable of shooting down an F-15, mounting a rescue operation with a C-130 may not be the brightest idea.

Anyone know the minimum speed of a B-2?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulton_surface-to-air_recovery...

Re: F-15E jet shot down over Iran

#550

Post by verdverm »

verdverm wrote: post #167
dmix wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty normal for planes to go down in a war. They've flown 5000+ sorties, it's a pretty huge accomplishment this is the first one lost over Iran. Especially considering all of the last decade's speculation about how tough attacking Iran would be. You'll never be able to fully suppress all of their manpads. Even if you destroy the bulk of their air defence network.

First to go down in Iran, but a surprising amount of attritions thus far - 3x F-15 friendly fire - 2x KC-130 refuel mid air collision (1 loss, 1 damaged) - 1x F-35 damaged - 1x AEWACs base strike - 3x KC-130 base strike (same) - 1x F-15 (this one) 2-3 a week is not great for the greatest military, more than half attributable to Iran. With 300+ US casualties, that's ~10/day, a fatality every ~2 days. No boots on the g…

List is outdated, an A-10 has now been shot down.

https://apnews.com/article/iran-us-israel-trump-lebanon-apri...

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