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The Document Foundation ejects its core developers

collaboraonline.com

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Re: The Document Foundation ejects its core developers

#151

Post by replooda »

warkdarrior wrote: post #149
replooda wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenBSD, a rather more complex project, seems to be doing fine without a code of conduct — in the sense bakugo employed "code of conduct," not in the generalized sensed you conflated it with in your non sequitur.

OpenBSD has a "netiquette" doc for its mailing lists: https://www.openbsd.org/mail.html Not sure if you want to count it as a "code of conduct", but it certainly defines rules on how to communicate and contribute to the project.

I'd count it as one in the general sense I'd count the style(9) manpage as another, not in the specific sense I indicated I was referring to:

> ... fine without a code of conduct — in the sense bakugo employed "code of conduct," not in the generalized sense ...

Re: The Document Foundation ejects its core developers

#152

Post by stronglikedan »

bawolff wrote: post #136
phkahler wrote: post #116

How about a different take: This isn't really about two open source organizations fighting. It's a psyop from the powers that want to stop the digital sovereignty initiatives going on around the world by amplifying some friction that already existed. People won't want to use products with so much drama and uncertainty. TDF needs to eject the members who pulled the strings hardest on this - they are plants. Damn I did…

> People won't want to use products with so much drama and uncertainty. Really? You think the average user cares about this drama?

Really? You think the average user is a TDF user?

Re: The Document Foundation ejects its core developers

#153

Post by chuckadams »

sgbeal wrote: post #106

Please help me understand where the missing comma is supposed to be in: > their Membership Committee has decided to eject from membership all Collabora staff and partners over thirty people who ... Is it: 1) "eject from membership all Collabora staff and partners, over thirty people ..." 2) "eject from membership all Collabora staff and partners over thirty, people who ..." :-? Edit: that's from the article this post…

When it comes to a governing board that's interested in all the intimate details of an office software suite, I strongly suspect you're not going to find anyone under 30.

Re: The Document Foundation ejects its core developers

#154

Post by mook »

yomismoaqui wrote: post #99
fn-mote wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So why not just fork it under a new name. Again? Sigh. Isn't that how we got LibreOffice in the first place? (From OpenOffice.)

Freeoffice as the next name? Seems like they are exhausting them quickly.

I believe OpenOffice is so dead that the name is available again? That would be kind of hilarious, though probably untenable.

Re: The Document Foundation ejects its core developers

#155

Post by ahartmetz »

Ertuit wrote: post #144
cap11235 wrote: post #65

Fix the title. No one seems to recognize "TDF" (The Document Foundation) despite their daily dramatics, myself included.

In France, TDF is a company that operates big TV and FM radio antennas, including on the Eiffel Tower and on many mountain-top.

Tours de France? ;)

(Pun explainer: silent s, so it sounds like the cycling event. Meaning Towers of France - tour means both tower and tour[en] in French, only their grammatical gender is different)

Re: The Document Foundation ejects its core developers

#156

Post by khalic »

Tuna-Fish wrote: post #147
khalic wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is anecdotal at best, but it does play into the tired old technical vs non-technical simplification. The fact that the two entities have now become direct competitors is a better explanation grounded in facts

Your explanation is also an oversimplification that leaves out a lot of key details. TDF is ran by a board. The board is supposed to contain 10 people, it currently has 7. This board is expected to be elected by members on a regular schedule. The elections are late, because the rump board has twice delayed the elections. Instead of holding elections to fill out the board, the rump board chose to change the bylaws, th…

Fair points, I didn’t know about the legal tango from the TDF, circumventing processes to impose yourself is not the tool of the righteous usually

Re: The Document Foundation ejects its core developers

#157

Post by karel-3d »

dangus wrote: post #146
garciansmith wrote: post #129

There's more context in another HN thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47602859 As an outsider it's pretty opaque to me. I think the Document Foundation (handling LibreOffice) wanted to (re)release an online office suite that seems to compete with Collabora, which sells one. But the biggest contributors to LibreOffice are Collabora employees. I thought maybe they feared Collabora taking over the org, but it…

I have a feeling that the Open Document Foundation is going to end up being the loser here. Collabora is the entity that can fund development with a commercial offering. It sounds like they employ the core contributors to the project as well. Regardless of who "wins," I'm just here to say that I like OnlyOffice a lot better and switched away from LibreOffice. I like that it just looks more like a modern program and o…

OnlyOffice is not really open source. They say they are but they also add impossible conditions to their license. (you are forced to use their logo, but you are also not allowed to use their logo.)

Re: The Document Foundation ejects its core developers

#158

Post by tapoxi »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #148
phkahler wrote: post #116

How about a different take: This isn't really about two open source organizations fighting. It's a psyop from the powers that want to stop the digital sovereignty initiatives going on around the world by amplifying some friction that already existed. People won't want to use products with so much drama and uncertainty. TDF needs to eject the members who pulled the strings hardest on this - they are plants. Damn I did…

I'm confident the person who most wants to sabotage LibreOffice's success is Italo Vignoli. He's involved in this issue as well, but the other core problem is his marketing strategy: https://blog.documentfoundation.org/blog/author/italovignoli... Most of his blogs are about how awful OOXML (Microsoft Office's open standard) formats are, and that everyone needs to switch to ODF (his preferred open standard). What peop…

He's using this approach because the EU requires documents to be in an open format, and by him advocating that OOXML is only open by name, he can advance a legal argument that OpenDocument is the only acceptable format.

Office supports OpenDocument.l, it just doesn't use it by default.

Re: The Document Foundation ejects its core developers

#159

Post by ocdtrekkie »

tapoxi wrote: post #158
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confident the person who most wants to sabotage LibreOffice's success is Italo Vignoli. He's involved in this issue as well, but the other core problem is his marketing strategy: https://blog.documentfoundation.org/blog/author/italovignoli... Most of his blogs are about how awful OOXML (Microsoft Office's open standard) formats are, and that everyone needs to switch to ODF (his preferred open standard). What peop…

He's using this approach because the EU requires documents to be in an open format, and by him advocating that OOXML is only open by name, he can advance a legal argument that OpenDocument is the only acceptable format. Office supports OpenDocument.l, it just doesn't use it by default.

I understand his approach but it's a dumb approach. OOXML is plenty open, proven by the fact LibreOffice works with it fine. The push to force Europe switch to ODF only serves to suggest LibreOffice isn't capable of replacing Microsoft Office (in a world where most other organizations use Office). This is a conversation I have at work, where people laugh when LibreOffice is mentioned and suggest it's incompatible and we can't consider it.

A far better marketing strategy would be to loudly announce, continually, that LibreOffice is the best software for handling Office files and ODF alike! And as people switch to LibreOffice and it defaults to ODF, that naturally grows.

Meanwhile, LibreOffice's current marketing strategy may succeed in getting governments to offer ODF files and simultaneously sabotage anyone from ever switching to LibreOffice because LibreOffice's own marketing claims it won't work well with Word and Excel files.

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