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The Technocracy Movement of the 1930s

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Re: The Technocracy Movement of the 1930s

#41

Post by simianwords »

asdff wrote: post #35
simianwords wrote: post #17

“Like religious millenarianism awaiting the Second Coming, tech elites believe technology alone will usher in a total and complete transformation of society.” This is the standard view amongst most social theorists and economists. (Of course it’s not technology alone but that’s the prerequisite). Without agriculture and the Industrial Revolution, say bye bye to your woke policies L G B T Q rights and feminism. Humans…

>Humans simply wont develop mentally while slogging in a farm or being hunter gatherers. Uh what? How do you think they came up with systems of government, economics, and religion if you characterize them as basically cows on pasture?

I literally told you that it was technology - agricultural revolution in this case. This made people specialised so that they dind't have to waste time slogging for food which freed their mind up for other mental activities.

Re: The Technocracy Movement of the 1930s

#42

Post by tovej »

rootusrootus wrote: post #7
tovej wrote: post #6

Expected to read about past and current connections between technocracy and fascism. Was not disappointed. Musk, Altman, Thiel, Ellison, Zuckerberg, Page, and the like are trying to implement technocracy. And that's something we should be resisting at every opportunity.

> Musk, Altman, Thiel, Ellison, Zuckerberg, Page, and the like are trying to implement technocracy Several people (maybe all, I do not know for sure) on that list are pretty hard core right wing populists, correct? Isn't that completely at odds with technocracy? Or are you thinking that they are just taking advantage of a populist movement but are themselves technocrats?

Did you read tfa?

The key word here is populism. Finding scapegoats (immigrants, woke feminists, lazy unemployed people) to explain away societal ills caused by inequality. Of course tech billionaires prefer blaming the scapegoats to blaming themselves. It serves as a political shield, so that they can continue to hoard wealth and control.

In the 30s, industry leaders aligned themselves with Hitler and Mussolini. They both focused on technology as a means of control. Capitalists also see the benefit of cheap labor and a war economy.

Right wing populism and technocracy are a match made in heaven, because fascism is good for the bottom line.

Re: The Technocracy Movement of the 1930s

#43

Post by engineer_22 »

recursivecaveat wrote: post #38

Technocracy always struck me as weirdly incoherent? If you take the economy, probably the most studied of government policies, it is not 1 number. There are many questions about what priorities ought to be. There is no 'expert' answer for how many starving poor people are a worthy trade off for a GDP point. Even if there was, there is an economist branch that disagrees with any possible position you might take. The q…

My theory

It coalesced at a time when science was becoming more accessible to the masses, more educated technicians running around engaging in work and trade.

And these technicians were frustrated by bosses who didn't understand the science and technique behind things.

So there was great inefficiency because the bosses hadn't caught up to the technicians in their understanding of the world.

And so the political idea of "put in charge the people who actually understand the problem" caught hold of the technicians, and they were fired up for a period of time and they called it technocracy.

Re: The Technocracy Movement of the 1930s

#44

Post by _bypa »

akomtu wrote: post #21
_bypa wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why optimize for efficiency though? Why not human flourishing or planetary health, whichever way you wish to define that? Efficiency sounds to me like an absolutely awful way to run any society as it's what turns individuals into disposable cogs of a machine that needs to be operated smoothly because, well, no obvious reason other than a fetish to see the machine run smoothly, no matter the human cost.

Technocracy, and the doctrine of materialism, sees humans as machines.

Or perhaps not even that. We're just fuel for the machines.

Re: The Technocracy Movement of the 1930s

#45

Post by engineer_22 »

codejake wrote: post #30

Commenters here are getting confused. There's technocracy, the governance[1]. And Technocracy, the pseudo-cult movement[2]. They quickly evolved into different things with different ideologies. The article is mostly about the latter movement. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy_movement

What's psuedo-cult about it?

Re: The Technocracy Movement of the 1930s

#46

Post by engineer_22 »

engineer_22 wrote: post #45
codejake wrote: post #30

Commenters here are getting confused. There's technocracy, the governance[1]. And Technocracy, the pseudo-cult movement[2]. They quickly evolved into different things with different ideologies. The article is mostly about the latter movement. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy_movement

What's psuedo-cult about it?

Oh neat they're still accepting applications.

Re: The Technocracy Movement of the 1930s

#49

Post by logicchains »

simianwords wrote: post #20

One thing is for sure, whether you like it or not countries that adopt policies that promote tech will outcompete and destroy other countries (metaphorically). You can’t do anything but watch technology take over. It doesn’t care about what you want or prefer.

Not necessarily, it's possible that a country that goes too fast with human augmentation will end up accidentally sterilizing the majority of its population, causing it to fall behind. Like the Asgard in Stargate, who accidentally sterilized themselves through excessive use of cloning.
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