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Marc Andreessen is wrong about introspection

joanwestenberg.com

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Re: Marc Andreessen is wrong about introspection

#121

Post by bigyabai »

vrganj wrote: post #101
bigyabai wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Step one is that all of us blue collar technologists need to get organized So that Apple and Google can discriminate against us as a bloc, instead of individually? As a programmer I struggle to see how organization would achieve anything. We hold no cards, it's the platform holders who won.

Who builds and maintains the platforms? Labor is entitled to all it creates.

Greedy, unprincipled sycophants?

Google and Microsoft employees already tolerate terrible software and immoral contract deals. It's not like you can count on them growing a conscience over working for an evil company.

Re: Marc Andreessen is wrong about introspection

#122

Post by Arubis »

bluGill wrote: post #111
gassi wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've taken the position that anything the ultra-wealthy say is likely wrong, and every decision they take will negatively affect society, unless and until its corroborated by an unbiased source with expertise in the subject matter.

The ultra-wealthy are no different from anyone else. However the effects of their decisions - both good and bad - tend to be much larger than what most of us can do.

I invite you to expand on your blanket statement. I posit that the ultra-wealthy are necessarily and unavoidably transformed by the lived experience of having that level of wealth: virtually any logistical inconvenience you and I currently relate to can be monied away; the proportion of strangers and near-strangers that want to interact with you deferentially and transactionally jumps; the consequences for many of your mistakes become invisible to you.

edit: I don't mean just to shoot you down here--I think there's a counterargument to be made here. It might start with "those folks really are the same as us, responding and acting as we ourselves would when dropped into that environment and surroundings". That would hinge on observing the actions and behaviors of someone who, having lived a life as a billionaire, has lost or forsworn that level of fortune and whose lives we might now judge as in the range of "normal". I think that'll be hard to find; the wealthy making public pledges to give away 99% of their wealth are still ludicrously wealthy, and to my knowledge all make that commitment to do so around when they die--not before.

Re: Marc Andreessen is wrong about introspection

#123

Post by spamizbad »

gassi wrote: post #24
John23832 wrote: post #12

We all know he’s wrong. The problem isn’t that he is wrong, it’s that we have elevated the wealthy into a status where they can be wrong, have no correction, and make decisions whole clothe which negatively affect the rest of us. All while being insulated from their negative world view.

I've taken the position that anything the ultra-wealthy say is likely wrong, and every decision they take will negatively affect society, unless and until its corroborated by an unbiased source with expertise in the subject matter.

I think the ultra-wealthy are just operating under what they think they need to tell people in order to get the outcomes they want. You're only going to hear the truth - or something correct - if its to their benefit.

Re: Marc Andreessen is wrong about introspection

#124

Post by biophysboy »

John23832 wrote: post #12

We all know he’s wrong. The problem isn’t that he is wrong, it’s that we have elevated the wealthy into a status where they can be wrong, have no correction, and make decisions whole clothe which negatively affect the rest of us. All while being insulated from their negative world view.

Tech still broadly respects edgy, hot take contrarianism, even if they think Andreessen is stupid in this instance.

Re: Marc Andreessen is wrong about introspection

#125

Post by quantummagic »

thedima wrote: post #56
John23832 wrote: post #12

We all know he’s wrong. The problem isn’t that he is wrong, it’s that we have elevated the wealthy into a status where they can be wrong, have no correction, and make decisions whole clothe which negatively affect the rest of us. All while being insulated from their negative world view.

I really like the way you put it: “It’s okay to be wrong. We’re all wrong from time to time. What’s not okay is not having a way to be corrected by the outside world for a specific reason: being at the top of the political pyramid, being ultra-wealthy and surrounded by flattery, etc"

You're right, but we've never devised any system that prevents this from happening. Every single organization leads to a concentration of wealth and power. And even those ideally conceived to have counterbalancing forces, eventually are corrupted and subverted. It seems to be the steady state of reality.

Re: Marc Andreessen is wrong about introspection

#126

Post by coldtea »

rybosworld wrote: post #120
John23832 wrote: post #12

We all know he’s wrong. The problem isn’t that he is wrong, it’s that we have elevated the wealthy into a status where they can be wrong, have no correction, and make decisions whole clothe which negatively affect the rest of us. All while being insulated from their negative world view.

Tim Dillon said summarized it pretty well - can't remember or find the exact quote. Something to the effect of: "Look around at all these things I have - how could I be wrong when I have so much?" And that's how you get the Andreessen's and Musk's of the world stating these nonsensical things as truth. In their minds, financial success is the ultimate yardstick. The fact that they have so much wealth is a testament t…

Also doesn't help that wealth means they can own newspapers or social media to promote their shitty takes as gospel, and have armies of regular Joe fanbois, that kiss their ass and tell us how wise they are...

Re: Marc Andreessen is wrong about introspection

#127

Post by quantummagic »

tcbawo wrote: post #22
John23832 wrote: post #12

We all know he’s wrong. The problem isn’t that he is wrong, it’s that we have elevated the wealthy into a status where they can be wrong, have no correction, and make decisions whole clothe which negatively affect the rest of us. All while being insulated from their negative world view.

We now live in a courtier world where flattery and politics determine successful outcomes.

Yes we do. We always did, and we still do.

Re: Marc Andreessen is wrong about introspection

#128

Post by pasquinelli »

bigyabai wrote: post #97
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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> Step one is that all of us blue collar technologists need to get organized So that Apple and Google can discriminate against us as a bloc, instead of individually? As a programmer I struggle to see how organization would achieve anything. We hold no cards, it's the platform holders who won.

this is so funny for me to read. a few years ago, i would see programmers saying they can negotiate better deals for themselves than a union could. now you're saying it's already over, programming as a skill has a future valuation that's heading to zero.

i advise against being so sure of your ideas. maybe you think platform holders have all the cards--test it. if they fight efforts to unionize, that tells a different story.

Re: Marc Andreessen is wrong about introspection

#129

Post by Arubis »

tcbawo wrote: post #22
John23832 wrote: post #12

We all know he’s wrong. The problem isn’t that he is wrong, it’s that we have elevated the wealthy into a status where they can be wrong, have no correction, and make decisions whole clothe which negatively affect the rest of us. All while being insulated from their negative world view.

We now live in a courtier world where flattery and politics determine successful outcomes.

That has been the case for a vast swathe of time across history. It hurts because we had a nice couple of decades where it seemed that, not only was this not the case, but that we were directionally accelerating away from it.

Re: Marc Andreessen is wrong about introspection

#130

Post by jacquesm »

abdelhousni wrote: post #91
frereubu wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The penultimate sentence of this fantastic 1997 interview with Trump has stayed with me since I read it: "Trump, who had aspired to and achieved the ultimate luxury, an existence unmolested by the rumbling of a soul." https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1997/05/19/trump-solo

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