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The People's Bailout

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Re: The People's Bailout

#181

Post by chmike »

I really don't understand the principle. Is it possible a bank would sell a 10K$ dept for 500$ ?

The root of the problem is that banks or credit companies sold loans to people who were unable to pay back the loan. The banks and credit companies new it but didn't care. This is criminal. The people who took the loan weren't educated enough or in proper control of their impulsions. In don't see much difference with selling drugs in the open.

I've been told that in Belgium each loan of the citizen are registered in a national file. If that person become insolvent, any loans to that person not registered or given when he was above 33% may be erased by a judge.

This is to provide a natural incentive to loaners to avoid screwing people.

Buying loans is like trying to emptying a sinking ship with a spoon. Fix the hole first !

Re: The People's Bailout

#182

Post by MordinSolus »

zanny wrote: post #160
joe_the_user wrote: post #83

The reason that any bank that sells debt would attempt to avoid this kind of thing happening should obvious. Moral hazard. If a debtor can refuse to pay and then only pay what the bank really then thinks the loan is worth (with few if any penalties), then every debtor is going to do that . Obviously, OWS is doing this as a political statement that the debt system in the US is corrupt, unjust or something. It does see…

> The student loan system today generates a huge number of defaults. Too bad you can't default on student loans. I'm lucky I have 7k in the bank and 10k in student loans to pay off since I'm unemployed. I've heard horror stories of people working minimum wage service jobs with 40% of their wages garnished for student debt for an art degree. It is their faults they did it, but its also the faults of colleges and insti…

And the federal government for encouraging such behavior as well.

Re: The People's Bailout

#184

Post by Shivetya »

narcissus wrote: post #28
marknutter wrote: post #19

How does OWS think this debt accumulated? Debt isn't some random accident like getting hit by a car while crossing the street. You have to get yourself into debt. It used to be taboo, but it's acceptable to get into debt these days and worse yet, walk away from it. OWS, to me, represents an entitled generation.

"Debt isn't some random accident like getting hit by a car while crossing the street." Except debt can be exactly due to some random accident like getting hit by a car while crossing the street and you don't have the insurance to pay for the medical bills. I'm not saying that this is true for all of the OWS debts: probably not even the majority. I'm just saying that it's not as easy as "it's your fault you're in debt…

I sure hope they are going to apply some sort of means test. Having known quite a few people who have discharged their debts in court or are currently mocking the system I certainly don't think all of them deserve the help.

If this group would focus on debt incurred from medical cases then I would be all for it. I want something where I feel good contributing, there are far too many dead beats out there who have hands out but never have a helping hand out for others.

Re: The People's Bailout

#185

Post by saraid216 »

chmike wrote: post #181

I really don't understand the principle. Is it possible a bank would sell a 10K$ dept for 500$ ? The root of the problem is that banks or credit companies sold loans to people who were unable to pay back the loan. The banks and credit companies new it but didn't care. This is criminal. The people who took the loan weren't educated enough or in proper control of their impulsions. In don't see much difference with sell…

> Buying loans is like trying to emptying a sinking ship with a spoon. Fix the hole first !

Mass sit-ins didn't seem to fix the hole. Why not relieve what they can, and possibly build some story-ammo for their next attempt?

Or are you actively working on fixing the hole and have useful suggestions on going about it?

Re: The People's Bailout

#186

Post by shiftpgdn »

aarondf wrote: post #146
saraid216 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But gifts are capped at $12,000 per year, which puts something of a damper on the whole point of this, unless they've figured out a legal way to farm out who gets credit. So either they've promised not to go after these cases, or ... something else?

Actually 13,000 per individual, so 26,000 to the household if married. And 52,000 if given from one couple to another (think parents to child+spouse.) (CPA in Texas)

Hopefully you see this but can you send me an email? J@squid.nu . I am in dire need of a competent CPA.

Re: The People's Bailout

#188

Post by bobwaycott »

tsotha wrote: post #175
bobwaycott wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I'm not entirely disagreeing with your point, there is an element of dubious optionality wrt student debt when one systemically cannot find gainful employment without a college degree. College degrees are increasingly becoming the new high school diplomas—wherein they are, for all intents and purposes, of equal compulsory nature, without the defense of laws requiring all 18-21-year-olds to be there. Thus, for v…

I disagree. There are all kinds of things you can do that don't require a college degree, including any kind of owner-operated business, a military career, or a skilled trade. Even today only 40% of the population gets a college degree. That other 60% is doing something to make ends meet.

I think you miss the point. Systemically, exiting high school and entering college is the narrative. It is the path students are being presented as the way forward, not an option forward. Culturally, there is a very strong set of expectations placed on people wrt university education, and this narrative determines people's recognized option paths. There are strong social determinants in place, both positive and negative, to which people react and from which they draw their conclusions--even unknowingly.

Student debt has risen in tandem with the codification of the narrative. An entire industry of loan operations has exploited the inexperienced eighteen-year-olds of the last few decades, saddling them with lifelong debt in the pursuit of the supposed "dream" the American narrative has been selling them their whole lives.

Suffice to say, when one talks about options available to people, one should talk deeply of the real viability and potentiality of those options on a person and his/her life, and refrain from rattling off platitudes of the things someone could do other than follow the narrative. Those things typically aren't qualitatively better, and usually wind up being part of the greater narrative as how we ease our consciences and wash our hands of people we allow to systemically fail.

Re: The People's Bailout

#189

Post by yummyfajitas »

marvin wrote: post #158
philwelch wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you lose badly enough at credit that you end up declaring bankruptcy, maybe homeownership or car loans aren't for you. Just a thought.

Could be. But there are some unlucky people in there as well - single parents who bought a house at the peak of the housing bubble because they were afraid that home prices would keep rising and leave them without a place to live. And then promptly lost their job in the recession.

Real estate speculators who made highly leveraged bets that went bad are in fact the sort of people who should, perhaps, not get the opportunity to repeat their mistakes.

Re: The People's Bailout

#190

Post by rapind »

lifeguard wrote: post #171
wheelerwj wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hey, do you know if it is possible to buy up a specific person debt? or just general debt contracts?

You could buy a specific corporation's debt but I think consumer bad debt is sold in big blocks of anon accounts until you are the owner.

Otherwise it'd be pretty interesting if you could buy your own debt at a huge discount.
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