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The People's Bailout

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Re: The People's Bailout

#161

Post by TheAmazingIdiot »

RollingJubilee wrote: post #82
malandrew wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't OWS just hold it forever and not do anything with it? i.e. "Look I bought your debt, you don't have to pay me a penny for it ever, but I can't officially forgive you since to do so would subject you an income tax obligation. Just don't worry about it ever again and get on with your life."

The main problem with that is that we would be collecting assets that we would then have to pay taxes on. Better to destroy the debt all together.

Have you thought about creating a non-profit (or some corporate) and actively hide behind the corporate veil?

When the shit hits the fan, suddenly there's nothing under that tablecloth...

Re: The People's Bailout

#162

Post by TheAmazingIdiot »

malandrew wrote: post #46
bendmorris wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buying someone's debt and hoping to make more than you paid is what any collection agency does.

I'm interested in knowing if there is a business model in an "eBay or SecondMarket for personal debt" where anyone could buy and sell the debt of other people. I get the feeling that there is disruption possible in this industry but I don't know enough about it to speculate how it could be disrupted.

Sounds great.

So the mob will start buying debt from targeted individuals and have a "chat".

Re: The People's Bailout

#163

Post by wavesounds »

RollingJubilee wrote: post #84

No forgiving. Forgiveness implies someone did something wrong. These debts are illegitimate and should never have existed in the first place. These debts are immoral, if anyone needs forgiving it is the banks. We are not forgiving debts, we are abolishing them.

I think this is really awesome what you're doing. Can you provide some examples of the kind of debts you're talking about?

Re: The People's Bailout

#164

Post by wavesounds »

washedup wrote: post #27

Won't a result of this be an increase in the "cost" of debt, and hence interest rates on variable loans would raise for everyone else while other's are being paid off? Seems bad..

No by buying bad debt that nobody wants to buy you are adding liquidity to the market, its a win win for everyone involved.

Re: The People's Bailout

#165

Post by lifeguard »

philwelch wrote: post #150
lifeguard wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only is it bad, a BK on your file means you will have to use 'special' finance to get a car loan and it will be impossible to find a bank to underwrite a sub-prime loan for a house (for seven years). You would also have to pay a higher rent security deposit on an apartment.

If you lose badly enough at credit that you end up declaring bankruptcy, maybe homeownership or car loans aren't for you. Just a thought.

Ironic you are saying this on an entrepreneurial forum Phil. As I mentioned elsewhere, Donald Trump has filed been through bankruptcy more than once.

Re: The People's Bailout

#166

Post by lifeguard »

forrestthewoods wrote: post #152
RollingJubilee wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi everyone. I want to assure you all that we are aware of the tax implications. We are working with a pro-bono tax lawyer and have called the IRS several times. The IRS informed us that we do not meet the requirements to file a 1099-c (we are not a bank, credit union, etc.) Our tax lawyer has written some technical langue for our website. The bottom line is that we will be purchasing debt of people who are most like…

This sounds outrageously risky. Unless you have written, signed approval from the IRS for your plan I wouldn't dare make a move. Once you're in their sights it's damn near impossible to get away. In the current economic climate it doesn't take much to convince a jury you deserve to go to prison for tax evasion and/or fraud. A pro-bono lawyer can not stand against the legions of the IRS.

Did you know the IRS has their own court and judges?

Re: The People's Bailout

#167

Post by frio »

philwelch wrote: post #148
frio wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what if the shoe's on the other foot? A driver hits someone. The driver doesn't have insurance. He's now liable for the other person's medical bills, but can't afford them. He's now massively in debt over some random accident. No matter the moral judgment ("he shouldn't be driving without insurance"), the underlying point was that random debt does happen :).

Not only should he not be driving without insurance, but he's almost certainly at fault for hitting the pedestrian. We put some debtors into prison for lesser forms of irresponsibility.

The point is: unexpected debt happens. Arguing semantics over a hypothetical case is not a meaningful tangent :).

Re: The People's Bailout

#168

Post by tsotha »

btilly wrote: post #156
tsotha wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Not when the majority of jobs that create a vibrant middle class in the post-industrial United States require at least a college degree. That's a self-refuting argument. If your degree was really the ticket to a "vibrant middle class" job you'd be able to pay off your student debt. The reality is not all degrees are created equal, and people should think a little bit before they go $200k into debt for a degree that'…

>Not when the majority of jobs that create a vibrant middle class in the post-industrial United States require at least a college degree. That's a self-refuting argument. If your degree was really the ticket to a "vibrant middle class" job you'd be able to pay off your student debt. You just failed at basic logic. Saying that jobs of type X require a degree IS NOT saying that getting a degree guarantees that you will…

>Saying that jobs of type X require a degree IS NOT saying that getting a degree guarantees that you will get a job of type X.

No, but he was talking about the majority of jobs. I understand people get unlucky. That's life. But there's a huge disconnect between what the population of college students is paying for degrees and what the job market is paying for labor. This isn't a question of some small percentage of people getting unlucky. It's a fundamental overestimation of the value of what they're buying.

>I also see that you are happy to blame the victim.

People who make dumb decisions are not victims. Like I said, not everyone is in that position because they made a dumb decision. But most of them are.

Re: The People's Bailout

#169

Post by lifeguard »

patio11 wrote: post #49
malandrew wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't OWS just hold it forever and not do anything with it? i.e. "Look I bought your debt, you don't have to pay me a penny for it ever, but I can't officially forgive you since to do so would subject you an income tax obligation. Just don't worry about it ever again and get on with your life."

Conspiracy to commit tax fraud.

malandrew committed conspiracy with that post!

Re: The People's Bailout

#170

Post by tsotha »

sc68cal wrote: post #139
tsotha wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Not when the majority of jobs that create a vibrant middle class in the post-industrial United States require at least a college degree. That's a self-refuting argument. If your degree was really the ticket to a "vibrant middle class" job you'd be able to pay off your student debt. The reality is not all degrees are created equal, and people should think a little bit before they go $200k into debt for a degree that'…

I believe that the vast majority of student debt is not people going to an Ivy institution. The major concentration of serious debt issues has been in the private-education-as-big-business sector from companies like University of Phoneix and DeVry, whose business models depend on government backed student loans, or loans from private companies that are subsidized/guaranteed by the government (before President Obama s…

>I believe that the vast majority of student debt is not people going to an Ivy institution.

The difference is nobody goes into $200k debt studying at the University of Phoenix, whereas people who go to lower tier Ivies on student loans and get less marketable degrees have literally sold themselves into debt slavery.

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