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Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

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Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#301
post #99

I remember that - even though Steve Jobs promoted the iPad as a replacement to the 'heavy schoolbooks kids had to carry all day' - he never allowed his children to use iPads. I bet Zuckerberg doesn't allow his children to use social media. And I assume that Sam Altman won't allow his children to use AI chatbots. What does that tell us?

It’s probably more nuanced than this. Would I have let my kids use Facebook in the height of its popularity. Absolutely. It was fun, engaging and user driven. Now it’s just an absolute cesspit of paid content, ads and boomers posting in groups. I don’t even think it’s appropriate to call it social media anymore. It’s barely social. Not a single friend of mine posts anything on there.

I am only on FB for a group I admin that is useful and helps people. its more like forum hosting for me.

Almost all my friends have stopped posted. The only social thing I see from most people is wishing people happy birthday.

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#302
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parents do not have to be "experts in chilhood development" to know what is best for their children. Especially experts in their fields like the manufacturing of alcohol, guns or other products universallly considered dangerous.

So, if parents can rely on a a century of more of science showing the negative impacts of guns, tobacco, and alcohol on children… they can rely on vibes and politicians for evidence of harm from screens? I’m not even arguing with you. I’m just disappointed in how quickly so many on HN throw out all pretense of being interested in data as soon as a personal hot button issue comes up. It’s human nature I guess, but sti…

You need science to realise that guns are a danger to kids?

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just as "there is no royal road to mathematics", no AI can do your learning for you. The need for memorization of essential math identities (like multiplication tables and use of fractions) or rules of grammar (like verb conjugation or use of anaphora) will never be enhanced by AI. There is an essential role for good old fashioned rote learning that can't be avoided. To pretend AI will not impede that learning is a f…

I do not see the point of either of your examples of rote learning. What do you lose if you do not know the? You will pick up enough of multiplication tables through doing maths, native speakers of a language will conjugate correctly without memorising (you do need to do it if learning foreign languages). Anaphora is a technique which cannot really be rote learned - and most people to try to use it do so badly and ju…

> You will pick up enough of multiplication tables through doing maths

You will not do maths casually until you have memorized enough multiplication to make it not torture. You will not pick up multiplication from using a calculator any more than you will pick up programming from using a computer.

> native speakers of a language will conjugate correctly without memorising

They do not. They have memorized, through massive, constant, and forced practice, and now they conjugate correctly. The alternative of consulting a computer every time they need to speak is not a realistic one.

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#304
post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not using tech that you're describing here. You're talking about literally learning some basic computer skills (such as word processor, excel, reading email, some basic website building, use printer, and some amount of programming) For those, obviously you need a computer and completely agree that those are important skills to learn... But you maybe need to spend 1h/week during last 2 years of middle school on…

Would it be a mistake to use Desmos in a math classroom, or 3Blue1Brown style animations, to build up visual intuition? Should we not teach basic numerical and statistical methods in Python? Should kids be forced to use physical copies of newspapers and journal articles instead of learning how to look things up in a database? I'm all for going back to analog where it makes sense, but it seems wrongheaded to completel…

> Would it be a mistake to use Desmos in a math classroom, or 3Blue1Brown style animations, to build up visual intuition?

I don't think there's anything wrong with showing kids some videos every now and then. I still have fond memories of watching Bill Nye.

> Should we not teach basic numerical and statistical methods in Python?

No. Those should be done by hand, so kids can develop an intuition for it. The same way we don't allow kids learning multiplication and division to use calculators.

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#306
The same goes for college.

I've advised college students to leave their laptops in their dorm room. Take a spiral notebook to lecture, and a couple pens. Write down everything the professor writes on the chalkboard.

When studying, going over the notes, you'll hear the lecture again in your head.

Of course, if the professor doesn't use a chalkboard, and does a slide presentation instead, that will make studying harder for you.

The best presentation I ever gave was when the presenter didn't show up, and the conference asked for volunteers. I volunteered and gave an impromptu presentation using markers and the big whiteboard. The back-and-forth with the audience was very productive!

Most conferences have no way to do this. I tried using an overhead projector and markers, but the conference people thought I was crazy. There was just too much expectation of a packaged slide presentation.

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#307
post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tech can save you from a bad educational environment. I think kids need extreme amounts of freedom with guidance on what are the best tools to be used for learning. From visualizing linear algebra and analytic geometry problems to piracy. If anything, the teachers need to improve their tech literacy. There is no way to be done away with tech on school, but some balance and freedom must be achieved.

> I think kids need extreme amounts of freedom with guidance on what are the best tools to be used for learning. Why an "extreme" amount of freedom? > There is no way to be done away with tech on school, but some balance and freedom must be achieved. Yes there is. Students were educated just a couple decades ago without it. We can easily return to that style.

>Why an "extreme" amount of freedom?

As dangerous as this sounds, with guidance, I think it could be done. Government and public institutions love to lock the environment into something safe but useless for further learning and adaptability

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#308

[flagged]

Please don't post generated comments or AI-edited comments to HN [1]. You're welcome here, but only if you write in your own voice [2]. The community feels strongly about this.

[1] see https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html#generated and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47340079

[2] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#309

The same goes for college. I've advised college students to leave their laptops in their dorm room. Take a spiral notebook to lecture, and a couple pens. Write down everything the professor writes on the chalkboard. When studying, going over the notes, you'll hear the lecture again in your head. Of course, if the professor doesn't use a chalkboard, and does a slide presentation instead, that will make studying harder…

I'm teaching programming and algorithms at uni. Only blackboard.

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#310
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> sits on the shelf for the next kid. Maybe in a post-Soviet country they did. In my school they shredded them so the next class had to buy a new set.

Why did they do that?

Presumably because the school district got a slice of the money from the publisher.
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