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Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

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Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#41

Post by roysting »

mentalgear wrote: post #15

I remember that - even though Steve Jobs promoted the iPad as a replacement to the 'heavy schoolbooks kids had to carry all day' - he never allowed his children to use iPads. I bet Zuckerberg doesn't allow his children to use social media. And I assume that Sam Altman won't allow his children to use AI chatbots. What does that tell us?

The telescreens are for you, not for them.

On another totally unrelated note, this guy [1] that is not at all connected to the Epstein class whatsoever (he is) and is only an advisor to the leader of some some small little organization called the world economic forum says you and your children should be kept “happy” with drugs and video games.

Skip to the very end for the statement or listen to the whole little clip to hear how the demigods think about you and your children “worthless” children.

[1] https://youtu.be/QkYWwWAXgKI

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#42

Post by Mordisquitos »

Gigachad wrote: post #5
gritspants wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see the advantage of learning 'AI workflows'. I am in the US and there seems to be a FOMO plague infecting our school system when it comes to technology. In practice it seems more destructive to the child.

I keep hearing this at work but so far no one has explained what “learning ai” actually means. It seems to just be nonsense like those people selling prompt recipes or claiming to be prompt engineers. No one needs training in prompting AI. I could understand if they meant a deeper layer of integrating tech with systems but all they ever mean is typing things in to a text box.

I suspect that, in practice, what many enthusiastic advocates mean by “learning AI” is actually “learning to need AI”.

In other words, the aim is to get kids used to using AI as soon as possible, so that they do not learn the skills to function without depending on it.

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#43

Post by schnitzelstoat »

nalekberov wrote: post #37
schnitzelstoat wrote: post #10

I think it's better to use books and not have so many distractions in the classroom. But equally it's really helpful to be able to ask ChatGPT or whatever for a different explanation when you get stuck - but that is probably better done at home when studying the homework. It stops you getting frustrated and helps keep you making progress and in the 'flow state'. I guess a big problem for schools now will be how to ge…

> But equally it's really helpful to be able to ask ChatGPT or whatever for a different explanation when you get stuck - but that is probably better done at home when studying the homework. It stops you getting frustrated and helps keep you making progress and in the 'flow state'. Yeah sure, then get a (sometimes) wrong answer with high confidence and believe it?

It's quite rare that it gives a wrong answer nowadays. Even more so if you ask it to use the internet etc.

But yeah, it's not infallible and sometimes even when it gives you a source it will incorrectly summarise it, but you can double check the information in the source itself.

It just makes it a lot easier to do quickly rather than having to go and find the right Wikipedia article or dig through lots of documentation. Just like Wikipedia and online docs made it easier than having to go to the library or leaf through a 500-page manual etc.

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#44

Post by rimliu »

smatti wrote: post #2

A very similar development is going on in neighboring Finland. There are schools that use almost exclusively paper books (instead of digital ones) again. The overall consensus among parents is that books are way better than screens for kids, all the way up to high school. Hand-writing and free drawing with pen and paper provide many advantages to fixed screens. You cannot open a new tab to Youtube in a book. The sign…

if you need to "learn AI" - your AI sucks.

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#45

Post by rimliu »

schnitzelstoat wrote: post #10

I think it's better to use books and not have so many distractions in the classroom. But equally it's really helpful to be able to ask ChatGPT or whatever for a different explanation when you get stuck - but that is probably better done at home when studying the homework. It stops you getting frustrated and helps keep you making progress and in the 'flow state'. I guess a big problem for schools now will be how to ge…

using AI for education is one of the worst ideas for education.

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#46

Post by loa_in_ »

mentalgear wrote: post #15

I remember that - even though Steve Jobs promoted the iPad as a replacement to the 'heavy schoolbooks kids had to carry all day' - he never allowed his children to use iPads. I bet Zuckerberg doesn't allow his children to use social media. And I assume that Sam Altman won't allow his children to use AI chatbots. What does that tell us?

The kids you mention likely have multiple VR, AR and other gadget setups in their own home. Too much of a good thing is just that.

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#47

Post by econ »

gadflyinyoureye wrote: post #22
mentalgear wrote: post #15

I remember that - even though Steve Jobs promoted the iPad as a replacement to the 'heavy schoolbooks kids had to carry all day' - he never allowed his children to use iPads. I bet Zuckerberg doesn't allow his children to use social media. And I assume that Sam Altman won't allow his children to use AI chatbots. What does that tell us?

That the US and by extension the West is ruled by corrupt individuals that knowingly harm their fellow citizens. However, especially the US, few people will parent their children in a way that will protect and strengthen their kids. The schools, which gave up on success years ago, will continue to harm the children. The community with do nothing since they view the parents and the schools as the guardians of children…

>Almost no one wants to be the childless crank that shows up at a PTA or school board meeting demanding that tech be removed from the daily lives of the children.

I had never even realized.

As a bonus I now also see cranks proposing to raise other peoples children in some kind of sweatshop calling it education and schools. As if that was ever the goal.

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#48

Post by Telemakhos »

mentalgear wrote: post #15

I remember that - even though Steve Jobs promoted the iPad as a replacement to the 'heavy schoolbooks kids had to carry all day' - he never allowed his children to use iPads. I bet Zuckerberg doesn't allow his children to use social media. And I assume that Sam Altman won't allow his children to use AI chatbots. What does that tell us?

I think you are right, and your "bet" about Zuckerberg checks out, at least according to media reports about his family. Still, asking someone to draw an inference based on three pieces of evidence, of which two are a bet and an assumption, seems hasty.

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#49

Post by microtonal »

rvz wrote: post #23
mentalgear wrote: post #15

I remember that - even though Steve Jobs promoted the iPad as a replacement to the 'heavy schoolbooks kids had to carry all day' - he never allowed his children to use iPads. I bet Zuckerberg doesn't allow his children to use social media. And I assume that Sam Altman won't allow his children to use AI chatbots. What does that tell us?

He (Zuckerberg) doesn't. It tells us that they know that kids should not be using any of this technology as it is extremely addictive to kids who are none the wiser. > What does that tell us? It tells us three things: 1. Do not give a child access to iPads, social media or ChatGPT until they are old enough and are aware of their addictive nature. 2. Get them to read books as an alternative. 3. Being unable to restric…

I was nodding along until the third point. As a parent it can be really hard to deny your kids to smartphone/tablets when other parents don’t care and all their friends play Roblox, use WhatsApp to communicate, or watch YouTube.

Your kid will be the odd one out, missing some shared culture, left out of conversation or meetups they arrange in IM, etc.

The government should absolutely forbid social media and addictive games to kids under 16, otherwise it’s very hard as a parent to escape these little addiction machines and you can only try to limit damage.

Of course, we have to find a way that is not damaging privacy at the same time.

(If you don’t have kids or have kids that are under ~10, you do probably not know what the pressure is like… yet.)

Re: Sweden goes back to basics, swapping screens for books in the classroom

#50

Post by weird-eye-issue »

mentalgear wrote: post #15

I remember that - even though Steve Jobs promoted the iPad as a replacement to the 'heavy schoolbooks kids had to carry all day' - he never allowed his children to use iPads. I bet Zuckerberg doesn't allow his children to use social media. And I assume that Sam Altman won't allow his children to use AI chatbots. What does that tell us?

> And I assume that Sam Altman won't allow his children to use AI chatbots.

I doubt that, but the others seem reasonable

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