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The Claude Code Leak

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Re: The Claude Code Leak

#151

Post by kstenerud »

lelanthran wrote: post #76
kstenerud wrote: post #30

> It should serve as a warning to developers that the code doesn’t seem to matter, even in a product built for developers. Code doesn't matter IN THE EARLY DAYS. This is similar to what I've observed over 25 years in the industry. In a startup, the code doesn't really matter; the market fit does. But as time goes on your codebase has to mature, or else you end up using more and more resources on maintenance rather th…

> Code doesn't matter IN THE EARLY DAYS. > This is similar to what I've observed over 25 years in the industry. In a startup, the code doesn't really matter; the market fit does. > But as time goes on your codebase has to mature, or else you end up using more and more resources on maintenance rather than innovation. Counterpoint: Code does matter, in the early days too! It matters more after you have PMF, but that do…

That hasn't been my experience. What I've found worked is:

1. Find a potential customer who's excited about the idea of what you're going to build.

2. Build just enough to make them a mostly happy, paying customer while you secure more customers.

3. Now that you have a few customers, you have a better idea of where your architecture and business flow doesn't fit their needs.

4. Adapt to this reality, and make things robust enough that you're not spending too much time on customer support.

Re: The Claude Code Leak

#152

Post by kristianp »

kstenerud wrote: post #30

> It should serve as a warning to developers that the code doesn’t seem to matter, even in a product built for developers. Code doesn't matter IN THE EARLY DAYS. This is similar to what I've observed over 25 years in the industry. In a startup, the code doesn't really matter; the market fit does. But as time goes on your codebase has to mature, or else you end up using more and more resources on maintenance rather th…

Yes, and once they've found their market, why does claude code need to keep changing at high velocity? Has the harness really needed to change so much that they're not converging on a stable shape to the code?

Is it possible to start with something of this size that's vibe coded and refactor your way into something resembling a human codebase?

Re: The Claude Code Leak

#153

Post by mergesort »

MrDresden wrote: post #63

And this is why so much software today runs extremely hot. It's creators clearly care not for the efficiency of how it is built, which translates directly into how it runs. This blog post is effectively being apologetic about the fact that this is alright, since at least they got product market fit. Except Anthropic is never going to go back and clean up the mess once (if) they become profitable. I doubt anyone will…

Heya, post author here. I would say I’m not trying to be apologetic for the idea that software quality is diminishing, especially cause I became an indie developer because I care about quality.

When I say “it doesn’t matter” I mean more in an existential sense, and that people don’t seem to care. On the other hand people should do things because they care, which is why I personally still review the code that goes into my apps and spend the time to refactor and improve the stability and foundation rather than slopping like there’s no tomorrow.

Maybe I’m growing cynical but I understand why a business doesn’t care (at least until it comes back to bite them — which may take longer than some have assumed). And most of what you read about the subject is ultimately being driven by business needs of the desire of businesses.

Re: The Claude Code Leak

#154

Post by staindk »

bostik wrote: post #39
mergesort wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey there, author of the post here! I actually wrote this piece myself on my phone while I was out for a walk this morning. It was initially meant to be a quick note more than a full blog post —- whereas Coding As A Creative Expression took me a couple of days to write. I made a commitment to write more this year and put my thoughts out quicker than I used to, so that’s likely the primary reason it’s not as deep of a…

> wrote this piece myself on my phone while I was out for a walk If you have a strategy for jotting down (or dictating) notes while walking about, I would be curious how you manage that. I spend plenty of time walking outside, and tend to get (at the time) ideas that I'd like to explore further, most of which have evaporated from my mind by the time I get back home. Or even before I can get my phone out to jot down t…

Have a look at the Pebble Index ring. Might be a good fit for you.

Re: The Claude Code Leak

#155

Post by mergesort »

moezd wrote: post #111

Code quality matters when it becomes the code you have to maintain after six months. I'm honestly surprised by how some features of Claude Code seem to be held together with gum and duct tape. That being said, if you're just beginning and looking for your market fit, or pitching to investors with a flashy demo, it doesn't need to be an architectural miracle, in fact it will waste your time.

Heya, post author here. I just want to say that I actually agree with your surprise. In the piece what I’m trying to articulate is not that this can go on forever, but that I’m genuinely surprised we’ve made it a year and they continue to ship at a rapid clip and the product is still reasonably good.

> I’ve had to question the value of code a lot over the last couple of years, and this leak continues to reinforce the notion that I’ve vastly overestimated it my entire career.

Now we could be moments away from hitting any of the rules described on https://how.complexsystems.fail, but if you’d asked me a year ago how long it would take to get there with people working this way I would have definitely taken the under. That difference in what I believed and what I see with my own two eyes is what has me questioning my priors, because my calibration seems to need readjustment (maybe large or maybe small) for the world of software we’re in right now.

Re: The Claude Code Leak

#156

Post by mewpmewp2 »

r0x0r007 wrote: post #46

I dont understand why so many people have the need to emphasize the code vs product battle. There is no battle. Coding/developing/software engineering is a skill, that just like any other skill has certain requirements and best practices that have to be followed in order to make a quality, maintainable and adaptable application that can stand the test of time from the software perspective. Product, features, marketin…

On the other hand, consider if they took their time to make sure that quality is super good, did not mainly vibe code it, then they would have never become as popular as quickly as they did and would have been outcompeted by other llm providers. They only got so popular because they released Claude Code so quickly it was the most productive thing for everyone to use at that time.

And frankly at that point Claude Code as software doesn't matter anymore. It is about their models, they could throw it away, rewrite from scratch, etc, it wouldn't be a big deal.

Claude Code as a harness was never likely going to be for 10 years, because there would be so many of these harnesses, all different, the direction may change, etc.

As I understand someone internally quickly vibecoded for themselves only as a productivity tool, and then they realized internally how productive it can be, they decided to release it and people found it so productive they got hugely popular now thanks to that while otherwise would have been eaten out by OpenAI.

Also if requirements for this had to came from product it would have never even happened in the first place. As it was engineer trying to optimize their own workflow.

The only reason they decided to hide source code is to delay competitors imo and it wasn't related to security or anything, but by now OpenCode etc are objectively better tools anyway.

Re: The Claude Code Leak

#157

Post by lelanthran »

kstenerud wrote: post #151
lelanthran wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Code doesn't matter IN THE EARLY DAYS. > This is similar to what I've observed over 25 years in the industry. In a startup, the code doesn't really matter; the market fit does. > But as time goes on your codebase has to mature, or else you end up using more and more resources on maintenance rather than innovation. Counterpoint: Code does matter, in the early days too! It matters more after you have PMF, but that do…

That hasn't been my experience. What I've found worked is: 1. Find a potential customer who's excited about the idea of what you're going to build. 2. Build just enough to make them a mostly happy, paying customer while you secure more customers. 3. Now that you have a few customers, you have a better idea of where your architecture and business flow doesn't fit their needs. 4. Adapt to this reality, and make things…

I follow that too, when I try a new venture, but what does that have to do with "The Code Is/Isn't Important"?

What you listed is important, but those findings are distilled into the source code of the product. If you open the source, you are providing step-by-step instructions on solving some problem that other people are prepared to pay to solve.

Basically, you come up with a recipe for success for $FOO - why would you give that recipe away unless you've already capitalised on it?

Re: The Claude Code Leak

#158

Post by mergesort »

grey-area wrote: post #16

Points from the article. 1. The code is garbage and this means the end of software. Now try maintaining it. 2. Code doesn’t matter (the same point restated). No, we shouldn’t accept garbage code that breaks e.g. login as an acceptable cost of business. 3. It’s about product market fit. OK, but what happens after product market fit when your code is hot garbage that nobody understands? 4. Anthropic can’t defend the co…

Hey there, post author here. I think if you read deeper into my blog post history you’ll see that I have a reasonably balanced take on AI.

I generally think this will be a very important technology so I teach the subject to make sure people understand how to use it as leverage in their lives. (Yes as paid workshops, but I also volunteer weekly for 3-4 hour sessions at a non-profit where I get nothing more than the joy of helping people learn a valuable skill.)

At the same time just last week I wrote a post decrying the slop people are hoisting on their coworkers[^1], because I want people to use this technology in a positive way to create the lives they want, not to create downstream consequences for others. Ultimately I think agentic systems are incredibly powerful but also a technology that lends itself to anti-social behavior because of how independently empowering it can be. And so I hope that with the right exposure, discussion, and teaching we can take advantage of its democratizing nature, while reinforcing that what makes us special as humans is that we care and coordinate to do greater things. Value in this world — not just in the financial sense that we often boil it down to when we talk about this subject.

Hope that context helps provide a better lens into the piece, and that I still do care a lot about code and everything else that got me here, but that you are also reading personal reflections of who I am in a time of change, which is making me question (or reinforcing) some of the fundamental things I believed about software and sometimes the world more widely.

[^1]: https://build.ms/2026/3/23/workslop/

Re: The Claude Code Leak

#159

Post by gmerc »

miki123211 wrote: post #120
Frieren wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are several ways of looking at law and order. One way is that the law applies to everybody equally. That has been the way it works for many years, not perfectly, in democratic countries. There is another way of working were the law is not blind. Laws are applied based in who is the one affected. This is what big tech and the ultra-rich have been advocating for. The law applies differently to nobility and aristo…

A third way of looking at it is that you can't just blindly copy arguments when the situations are clearly different. Nobody, not even Anthropic, is arguing that they should be able to host other people's paid content for free. The crux of their fair-use defense is that models are transformative works, just like parodies or book reviews, and hence should be treated as fair use. You can't just take a pile of books (no…

It’s 200 lines of python

Re: The Claude Code Leak

#160

Post by lmf4lol »

gmerc wrote: post #159
miki123211 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A third way of looking at it is that you can't just blindly copy arguments when the situations are clearly different. Nobody, not even Anthropic, is arguing that they should be able to host other people's paid content for free. The crux of their fair-use defense is that models are transformative works, just like parodies or book reviews, and hence should be treated as fair use. You can't just take a pile of books (no…

It’s 200 lines of python

do you really believe that? Its not just the training run, its the whole infra around it as well
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