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The People's Bailout

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11–20 of 323 posts

Re: The People's Bailout

#11

This is a pretty interesting idea, economically speaking. Does anyone know what is necessary in order to become a debt broker? Being able to buy your own debt (by proxy) for pennies on the dollar might have pretty broad implications.

I think you just need to get a debt collector's license and that's not difficult. I'd ask my wife (used to be a collector), but she's asleep ATM.

We did discuss starting a collection business years ago so I could learn the business and write software for it (apparently the tools they use are a royal pain), but she wasn't interested in getting back in the field and I lost interest.

Bear in mind, though that to buy debt at pennies on the dollar, the debt is going to be very old (5+ years old at least probably) and the seller is only selling it because they're convinced they will never be able to collect. You're also looking at buying large blocks of it.

Re: The People's Bailout

#12

The problem that I see with this is that once your debt is sent to collections, that mark is already on your credit report for 7 years, even if you pay off the debt. So, "forgiving" the debt is pretty meaningless. People still have their credit report tarnished, which leads to higher interest rates, higher car insurance, and is basically another way to oppress people who are already poor. The only advantage to the de…

Seven years goes by in the blink of an eye once you're old enough ;-)

Forgiving the debt is not meaningless: it's a big chunk of money you don't have to pay off. Granted, it's better to work with the creditor and get them to settle for a smaller amount, but a $15k debt removed from your record is not likely to cause you $15k of increased expenses over 7 years.

Re: The People's Bailout

#14
post #5

So, what would prevent me from going into a massive amount of debt, not repaying it, and asking everyone else to foot my bill? This seems like OWS is saying, "Well, corporations got greedy and were bailed out. Now it's the people's time to do the same thing." Why is something, when supported by a corporation, immoral when the same thing, supported by "the people", is righteous? This seems like it's just encouraging b…

I don't think this problem exists or is big enough to worry about because the rolling jubilee approach only permits moral hazard once every 7 years due to credit scoring.

To be able to rack up significant debt, one much have great credit for several years in a row so that your line of credit can be expanded upon year after year. I reckon it takes 3-7 years to be able to get to a credit line of $30k because you choose to default. In that time, the creditor is likely to make a bunch of money on that assuming you maintain rolling debt because of interest in the interim. Only in the case where you keep upping your credit line, but don't use any of the money until you plan on sucking it dry to you maximize the take on a scheme like this. Even then you get at most $30k and then have to wait another 10-12 years to be able to try that scheme again.

Re: The People's Bailout

#15

The problem that I see with this is that once your debt is sent to collections, that mark is already on your credit report for 7 years, even if you pay off the debt. So, "forgiving" the debt is pretty meaningless. People still have their credit report tarnished, which leads to higher interest rates, higher car insurance, and is basically another way to oppress people who are already poor. The only advantage to the de…

This is "a" problem, not "the" problem. For a large number of people, getting $5k or $10k of debt erased would at the very least a large weight off their back, at the most a life changer. Living paycheck to paycheck means cherishing every extra dollar you get to keep. Getting to keep $50 or $100 a month in your pocket instead of sending off to some credit card or debt collection agency is a big deal sometimes. Most people who would probably take advantage of this don't even keep track of their credit because they're so behind anyway.

Re: The People's Bailout

#16
post #9
post #5

So, what would prevent me from going into a massive amount of debt, not repaying it, and asking everyone else to foot my bill? This seems like OWS is saying, "Well, corporations got greedy and were bailed out. Now it's the people's time to do the same thing." Why is something, when supported by a corporation, immoral when the same thing, supported by "the people", is righteous? This seems like it's just encouraging b…

It's called bankruptcy. 7 years of never being able to have credit.

Are you kidding? They hand out credit cards like candy to the recently bankrupt.

Re: The People's Bailout

#17

The problem that I see with this is that once your debt is sent to collections, that mark is already on your credit report for 7 years, even if you pay off the debt. So, "forgiving" the debt is pretty meaningless. People still have their credit report tarnished, which leads to higher interest rates, higher car insurance, and is basically another way to oppress people who are already poor. The only advantage to the de…

Seven years goes by in the blink of an eye once you're old enough ;-) Forgiving the debt is not meaningless: it's a big chunk of money you don't have to pay off. Granted, it's better to work with the creditor and get them to settle for a smaller amount, but a $15k debt removed from your record is not likely to cause you $15k of increased expenses over 7 years.

I'm actually interested in knowing if I bought the debt of someone else, could I write whatever I wanted on their credit report? For example, could I purchase $15k worth of debt for $500 and then forgive the debt and report to the credit agency that it was paid in full?

Re: The People's Bailout

#18
post #2

How does buying debt from creditors work? Would something like this actually cause buying debt more expensive and thus benefit creditors instead?

Generally, any time there is more demand for something the will increase. OWS entering the market for certain kinds of distressed debt would be expected to increase the price of that debt - the group of buyers in the market has increased by one, so there is more competition for the asset.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with this at all. The creditors are simply selling the debt to try and recover something from their original loan; getting more back than the would have a week ago is great. It doesn't matter to them whether the buyer is going to forgive the debt or collect it with men in leather jackets and hammers; they've sold, they've got back a few cents on the dollar and it's not their problem anymore.

How does it work? The debt is an asset belonging to the original creditor. To use the $14,000 example in David Rees's post, creditor XYZ made a loan to debtor ABC for, say, $10,000 a few years ago. They made that loan expecting to receive $14,000 back over time - that's why they did it. Now, ABC looks unable to repay the debt. The obligation still exists, but it's no longer practical or profitable for XYZ to try and recover it. XYZ has no men with hammers, no provision for accounting for irregular payments or special arrangements and no real interest in hanging on to this now-useless asset. Luckily for them, there are other companies which do want that asset, but because of the difficulties in collecting on it they're not willing to pay a lot. $500, in this case. It's worth spending $500 with the hope of collecting $14,000; if you spend $500 enough times then you'll eventually get back a few $14,000s and now you have a business. The price reflects the probability of getting that money back. In this case, very, very unlikely indeed, and if something's that cheap on Wall Street then you can be sure nobody wants it.

So that debt is bought and sold like anything else, according to the business needs of the various people involved. Your old neighbour's beaten old '68 Mustang might have been a piece of junk to him - it was too rusty to pass inspection - so he sold it for a few thousand, happy to get rid of a problem. To a specialist in vintage Fords, though, that car is worth a lot after they put the work in.

In this case there is an opportunity for a body with a bit of spare cash to benefit individual debtors by forgiving their loans, while helping creditors stay in business - and their employees feed their families - by buying their crappy assets at market rates. They are adding both charity and liquidity to a gummed-up market with very real people suffering in it.

Re: The People's Bailout

#19
How does OWS think this debt accumulated? Debt isn't some random accident like getting hit by a car while crossing the street. You have to get yourself into debt. It used to be taboo, but it's acceptable to get into debt these days and worse yet, walk away from it. OWS, to me, represents an entitled generation.

Re: The People's Bailout

#20

The problem that I see with this is that once your debt is sent to collections, that mark is already on your credit report for 7 years, even if you pay off the debt. So, "forgiving" the debt is pretty meaningless. People still have their credit report tarnished, which leads to higher interest rates, higher car insurance, and is basically another way to oppress people who are already poor. The only advantage to the de…

Keep in mind that you can always try to negotiate with the collections for a "pay for delete". Where you basically promise to pay the debt as long as the collection agency will delete it from your credit report. It works for some people.
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