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Jewish Problems

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Re: Jewish Problems

#31

Post by htf »

DaniFong wrote: post #10
mynameishere wrote: post #9

It's just affirmative action. This sort of thing happens in every multicultural country, especially when one group apparently does better financially than the others. http://www.amazon.com/Affirmative-Action-Around-World-Empiri... The Russians came up with an unusually crass method for this, but guess what? Jews and other whites and East Asians all are, to some degree, kept from elite institutions today because of ou…

Affirmative action? Are you mad? Perhaps you're unaware of these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Jewish_pogroms_in_the_Russ... Affirmative action is not the same thing as making it artificially harder for a discriminated minority!

> Affirmative action is not the same thing as making it artificially harder for a discriminated minority!

It is practically the same. When it comes to limited entrance, you can't make it easier for a certain group without making it harder for the rest.

Re: Jewish Problems

#32

Post by ucee054 »

shmerl wrote: post #25
ucee054 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't conflate prejudice with anti-semitism . It's plain insulting.

Better don't tell this "wisdom" to those who were discriminated in Russia. They won't appreciate it.

Universities had national census not only for Jews obviously.

Then complain in your comment about all the people treated unfairly, don't mention anti-semitism only.

If you don't get this - there is little point in explaining it to you.

Re: Jewish Problems

#33

Post by davidkatz »

htf wrote: post #31
DaniFong wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Affirmative action? Are you mad? Perhaps you're unaware of these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Jewish_pogroms_in_the_Russ... Affirmative action is not the same thing as making it artificially harder for a discriminated minority!

> Affirmative action is not the same thing as making it artificially harder for a discriminated minority! It is practically the same. When it comes to limited entrance, you can't make it easier for a certain group without making it harder for the rest.

Principally yes, but I'd disagree on essence.

Say you have a minority that's 1% of the population, and unhindered it would also make up 1% of enrollments.

If you don't allow that minority to enroll, you're increasing the acceptance chance of a majority group member by just over 1%, while decreasing the acceptance chance of the minority member by 100%.

The correct way to describe this is then most definitely discrimination against the minority, and not affirmative action for the majority.

Re: Jewish Problems

#34

Post by shmerl »

ucee054 wrote: post #32
shmerl wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better don't tell this "wisdom" to those who were discriminated in Russia. They won't appreciate it.

Universities had national census not only for Jews obviously. Then complain in your comment about all the people treated unfairly, don't mention anti-semitism only. If you don't get this - there is little point in explaining it to you .

I don't need to complain. Just further ignore your pointless flaming in this thread.

Re: Jewish Problems

#35

Post by davidkatz »

ucee054 wrote: post #28
shmerl wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better don't tell this "wisdom" to those who were discriminated in Russia. They won't appreciate it.

You weren't talking about those who were discriminated against in Russia, you were talking about jews who were discriminated against in Russia. Implying that all the others who were discriminated against don't count . And there were lots of them . Including, by these articles, victimized by MGU admissions. EDIT: check out in the article where it says "These problems were designed to prevent Jewish people and other un…

Unnecessary bashing. The OP singled Jews out, which framed this discussion mostly around Jews. Prejudice against Jews is called anti semitism. There's really nothing to see here, nobody implied that there was no discrimination against other groups.

Re: Jewish Problems

#36

Post by ucee054 »

shmerl wrote: post #34
ucee054 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Universities had national census not only for Jews obviously. Then complain in your comment about all the people treated unfairly, don't mention anti-semitism only. If you don't get this - there is little point in explaining it to you .

I don't need to complain. Just further ignore your pointless flaming in this thread.

Right back at you

Re: Jewish Problems

#37

Post by continuations »

DaniFong wrote: post #10
mynameishere wrote: post #9

It's just affirmative action. This sort of thing happens in every multicultural country, especially when one group apparently does better financially than the others. http://www.amazon.com/Affirmative-Action-Around-World-Empiri... The Russians came up with an unusually crass method for this, but guess what? Jews and other whites and East Asians all are, to some degree, kept from elite institutions today because of ou…

Affirmative action? Are you mad? Perhaps you're unaware of these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Jewish_pogroms_in_the_Russ... Affirmative action is not the same thing as making it artificially harder for a discriminated minority!

It is exactly like affirmative action:

http://www.boston.com/news/education/higher/articles/2011/04...

"Princeton sociologist Thomas Espenshade and researcher Alexandria Walton Radford examined data on students applying to college in 1997 and found what looks like different standards for different racial groups. They calculated that Asian-Americans needed nearly perfect SAT scores of 1550 to have the same chance of being accepted at a top private university as whites who scored 1410 and African-Americans who got 1100. Whites were three times, Hispanics six times, and blacks more than 15 times as likely to be accepted at a US university as Asian-Americans."

In Russia a minority like Jews are asked special questions in admission tests to make it harder for them to get in, while in America a minority like Asians are hit with a penalty of 450 points in SAT to make it harder (15 times harder) for them to get in. There's no difference.

Re: Jewish Problems

#38

Post by smm2000 »

davidkatz wrote: post #33
htf wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Affirmative action is not the same thing as making it artificially harder for a discriminated minority! It is practically the same. When it comes to limited entrance, you can't make it easier for a certain group without making it harder for the rest.

Principally yes, but I'd disagree on essence. Say you have a minority that's 1% of the population, and unhindered it would also make up 1% of enrollments. If you don't allow that minority to enroll, you're increasing the acceptance chance of a majority group member by just over 1%, while decreasing the acceptance chance of the minority member by 100%. The correct way to describe this is then most definitely discrimin…

Actually Jews were about 1% of Soviet Union population and 5%-10% of University students. If Jews were only 1% of student population it would not be an issue. I went to mathematical magnet school (best math school in 5M+ city) and easily 30%-50% of students had Jewish roots.

Essentially it was more difficult for Jews to get into university, neutral for Russians, easier for Tatars and some other minorities and extremely easy for what's called Northern Minorities (they had - and still have special quotas, no exams necessary)

Speaking as 1/4 Russian-Jewish, 1/4 Chuvash, 1/8 Latvian and 1/rest Russian.

Re: Jewish Problems

#39

Post by jarek-foksa »

DaniFong wrote: post #10
mynameishere wrote: post #9

It's just affirmative action. This sort of thing happens in every multicultural country, especially when one group apparently does better financially than the others. http://www.amazon.com/Affirmative-Action-Around-World-Empiri... The Russians came up with an unusually crass method for this, but guess what? Jews and other whites and East Asians all are, to some degree, kept from elite institutions today because of ou…

Affirmative action? Are you mad? Perhaps you're unaware of these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Jewish_pogroms_in_the_Russ... Affirmative action is not the same thing as making it artificially harder for a discriminated minority!

The term "affirmative action" is so easy to manipulate that it could be used to cover any form of discrimination. I guess Soviets would describe their discriminatory policy as an affirmative action to increase the social and ethnic diversity of the class of intellectuals, or something between those lines.

Re: Jewish Problems

#40

Post by jvm »

mynameishere wrote: post #9

It's just affirmative action. This sort of thing happens in every multicultural country, especially when one group apparently does better financially than the others. http://www.amazon.com/Affirmative-Action-Around-World-Empiri... The Russians came up with an unusually crass method for this, but guess what? Jews and other whites and East Asians all are, to some degree, kept from elite institutions today because of ou…

I can't believe this troll comment is the top comment.

> Our team of the best eight Soviet students, during the month we had the problems, solved only half of them.

Those questions weren't hard. They were impossible. The point was simply to not allow any undesirables to pass. Higher standards for Asians might be bullshit but it's not the same as literally keeping all Asians out regardless of skill.

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