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For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

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Re: For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

#71

Post by hdctambien »

saraid216 wrote: post #28
tedunangst wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obvious solution is obvious. Children need to be forced to play more Metroid.

And only Metroid? Or can you produce a list?

Beyond Good and Evil

American McGee's Alice

Resident Evil

Perfect Dark

Old NES Games based on the Alien movies (Ripley)

Donkey Kong Country 3 (Diddy Kong is the main character)

Chrono Trigger's main hero is a male, but 3 of the other 6 playables are strong females (2 of the others are a Frog and a Robot)

There are definitely more games with male protagonists than female, but there are enough to list.

Re: For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

#72

Post by hythloday »

AgathaTheWitch wrote: post #26

This is a very cool hack, and I support the intention behind it. Still, it is something I would never do for two reasons: For one, as an author, I disagree with altering a text for a political purpose. To be sure, this instance is fairly innocuous, and parents frequently change bedtime stories on the fly to suit their kids. Nevertheless I consider the Legend of Zelda to be a text with its own mythology and themes, an…

just as I wouldn't rewrite Hamlet as a girl for my daughter

Are you aware that Hamlet is a rewriting of an earlier play for a political purpose?

Re: For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

#73

Post by jacalata »

1qaz2wsx3edc wrote: post #6
Permit wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the idea is that when kids are growing up, they make subconscious connections and observations about the world around them. If a young child plays video games and consistently sees that boys are always the hero, they might extrapolate that to simply: "Boys and always the hero". I don't have a strong opinion on the subject, I just thought I'd try and explain the position as I understand it.

Then again, having the kid realize their parents have been subverting reality could lead to trust and control issues between them. I'll admit it's nice, but at the same time it's delusionment.

That doesn't stop most parents from doing Santa Claus and the tooth fairy though.

Re: For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

#74

Post by jacalata »

saraid216 wrote: post #30
dllthomas wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did... you stop reading the comment before the joke became apparent, to complain about the kneejerk nature of the comment?

You kind of need to know who yummyfajitas is, first. I didn't know who he was until I engaged him in a slapfight a week or so ago.

No you don't, I still don't know who he is and I read it as a joke.

Re: For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

#76

Post by saraid216 »

hdctambien wrote: post #71
saraid216 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And only Metroid? Or can you produce a list?

Beyond Good and Evil American McGee's Alice Resident Evil Perfect Dark Old NES Games based on the Alien movies (Ripley) Donkey Kong Country 3 (Diddy Kong is the main character) Chrono Trigger's main hero is a male, but 3 of the other 6 playables are strong females (2 of the others are a Frog and a Robot) There are definitely more games with male protagonists than female, but there are enough to list.

> Donkey Kong Country 3 (Diddy Kong is the main character)

You meant Dixie.

Re: For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

#77

Post by breadbox »

wazoox wrote: post #39
Tipzntrix wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are talking about the Tortoise and the Hare, I personally also identified the tortoise as a male, but the hare as a female. It's just how the words sounded in my head. I have not read GEB; perhaps it's a different tortoise you are talking about.

In GEB, the protagonists are the Tortoise and Achilles. I think this particular passage is about the french translation that Hoefstader proof-read (as he's fluent in French); the French translator called the Tortoise "she", because "tortue" is of feminine gender so most "tortues" characters are naturally female in French.

Not quite. Achilles and the Tortoise originally came from an essay by Lewis Carroll. Hofstadter had borrowed them for GEB, and in doing so also borrowed their gender -- or so he thought. In reality when he went back to check, long after publication, he realized that Lewis Carroll had left the Tortoise completely genderless.

Re: For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

#78

Post by scott_s »

AgathaTheWitch wrote: post #49
arrrg wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no dearth of male heroes. Your concern about her not encountering male role models is completely bonkers. I’m also not sure what your exact reason for opposing changing a work of art is as long as the original is not destroyed. And what is this political purpose you are talking about? I don’t see any connection to politics.

I'm not concerned about her not encountering male role models. I wrote "girls can learn leadership and toughness from male protagonists and heroes." That's what I would try to do with Link, not make him into a female. I'm speaking very generally when I say "political purpose". I don't mean that he is advancing an ideology, but rather he is addressing a gripe he has with society, specifically the lack of female heroes…

You view it primarily as "a gripe he has with society." I think he views it primarily as "I want my daughter to be able to pretend she is this character." There is a difference.

Re: For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

#79

Post by pygorex »

tptacek wrote: post #3

I don't understand why parents feel the need to be so politically correct. As 'yummyfajitas is sure to point out shortly, every empirical study ever conducted has shown that males have a statistically significant advantage in slaying Octoroks and Peahats.

This isn't political correctness run amok. This is simply a father trying to provide a positive female role model for his young daughter. Y'know, so she doesn't get the impression that heroism, accomplishment, ingenuity and adventure are of solely male provenance.

I'm curious - if it was a black father modding in a dark-skinned Link what would your reaction be?

Re: For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

#80

Post by AgathaTheWitch »

theevocater wrote: post #54
AgathaTheWitch wrote: post #26

This is a very cool hack, and I support the intention behind it. Still, it is something I would never do for two reasons: For one, as an author, I disagree with altering a text for a political purpose. To be sure, this instance is fairly innocuous, and parents frequently change bedtime stories on the fly to suit their kids. Nevertheless I consider the Legend of Zelda to be a text with its own mythology and themes, an…

Both Wonderwoman and Kusanagi are women designed by men. They are literally characters designed by men that dictate their views on how women should be. Even if they are relatively positive, they are still men transmitting their thoughts on how women should be. Tell us more about female role models please!

What's interesting is that both of those characters have evolved considerably beyond their beginnings. I think it is oversimplifying to say that they represent men dictating "how women should be", but both Marston's Wonderwoman and Masamune's Kusanagi have been interpreted in drastically different ways by other writers.

If you believe that a character who's gender is the opposite of its creator is somehow invalid or cannot be a role model then I don't know what to say other than I don't agree. It's a subjective point and not particularly interesting to debate in my opinion.

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