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For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

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Re: For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

#41

Post by dmlorenzetti »

stcredzero wrote: post #36
saraid216 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> just as I wouldn't rewrite Hamlet as a girl for my daughter Actually, that's sort of an interesting thought experiment. I was going to point out "Get thee to a nunnery," but I guess "monastery" would work fine. I think the act of rewriting Hamlet with gender-flips would be a nice exploration of sexism.

Actually, that's sort of an interesting thought experiment. http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2000/aug/23/artsfeatures.e... It's been noted that in many parts of Africa, the reaction to Hamlet's reaction to his uncle would be: A man dies, so his brother marries the widow -- that's the good and proper thing to do!

Classic treatment of this, and other ways in which Hamlet doesn't "translate" to another culture, is Bohannan's "Shakespeare in the Bush" (http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/picks-from-the-past/12476/s...).

Re: For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

#42

Post by arrrg »

AgathaTheWitch wrote: post #26

This is a very cool hack, and I support the intention behind it. Still, it is something I would never do for two reasons: For one, as an author, I disagree with altering a text for a political purpose. To be sure, this instance is fairly innocuous, and parents frequently change bedtime stories on the fly to suit their kids. Nevertheless I consider the Legend of Zelda to be a text with its own mythology and themes, an…

There is no dearth of male heroes. Your concern about her not encountering male role models is completely bonkers.

I’m also not sure what your exact reason for opposing changing a work of art is as long as the original is not destroyed. And what is this political purpose you are talking about? I don’t see any connection to politics.

Re: For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

#43

Post by GBond »

Hayao Miyazaki uses female protagonist not because it is more "PC" but for the advancement of the story.

'Miyazaki: I don't logically plan it that way. When we compare a man in action and a girl in action, I feel girls are more gallant. If a boy is walking with a long stride, I don't think anything particular, but if a girl is walking gallantly, I feel "that's cool." '

Re: For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

#45

Post by dllthomas »

saraid216 wrote: post #30
dllthomas wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did... you stop reading the comment before the joke became apparent, to complain about the kneejerk nature of the comment?

You kind of need to know who yummyfajitas is, first. I didn't know who he was until I engaged him in a slapfight a week or so ago.

That adds something, and might clue one in earlier, but "every empirical study ever conducted has shown that males have a statistically significant advantage in slaying Octoroks and Peahats" is unlikely to be anything but a joke.

Re: For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

#46

Post by Tipzntrix »

wazoox wrote: post #39
Tipzntrix wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are talking about the Tortoise and the Hare, I personally also identified the tortoise as a male, but the hare as a female. It's just how the words sounded in my head. I have not read GEB; perhaps it's a different tortoise you are talking about.

In GEB, the protagonists are the Tortoise and Achilles. I think this particular passage is about the french translation that Hoefstader proof-read (as he's fluent in French); the French translator called the Tortoise "she", because "tortue" is of feminine gender so most "tortues" characters are naturally female in French.

Interesting. That also seems to back up my point that languages just make words sound masculine or feminine, even if not explicitly defined like in the Romantic languages (French, Portuguese, Spanish, Italian, others of similar origin). The fact that they are in a footrace seems to suggest they were lifted from their original myths though.

Re: For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

#47

Post by IvarTJ »

AgathaTheWitch wrote: post #26

This is a very cool hack, and I support the intention behind it. Still, it is something I would never do for two reasons: For one, as an author, I disagree with altering a text for a political purpose. To be sure, this instance is fairly innocuous, and parents frequently change bedtime stories on the fly to suit their kids. Nevertheless I consider the Legend of Zelda to be a text with its own mythology and themes, an…

Both Wonderwoman and Kusanagi are modeled with apparent sex appeal by male authors. Could they really still be good role models? I ask this as someone who don't know much about either comics.

Re: For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

#48

Post by nsxwolf »

bcgraham wrote: post #24
Nathandim wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry but I'm firm to believe that the problem lies to the mind that makes the distinction first. If someone sees Link and the first thing that pops in his head is "what a shame he's not a girl" and retcon the intended storytelling to keep the content on par with their expectations then I certainly can't blame the game's creator. Not to mention that the boy isn't always the hero. I'll just bring another Nintendo…

Samus is hardly an exception; put into a suit that erases secondary sexual characteristics, the question of gender was (in the first game) left until the last possible minute, as nothing more than a "gotcha." In future games, Samus's gender is still hidden behind the suit.

Everyone who plays the series today know she's a girl, though. The "reveal" gimmick of the first game is long forgotten and probably says more about this issue in the 80s than it says about it today.

Re: For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

#49

Post by AgathaTheWitch »

arrrg wrote: post #42
AgathaTheWitch wrote: post #26

This is a very cool hack, and I support the intention behind it. Still, it is something I would never do for two reasons: For one, as an author, I disagree with altering a text for a political purpose. To be sure, this instance is fairly innocuous, and parents frequently change bedtime stories on the fly to suit their kids. Nevertheless I consider the Legend of Zelda to be a text with its own mythology and themes, an…

There is no dearth of male heroes. Your concern about her not encountering male role models is completely bonkers. I’m also not sure what your exact reason for opposing changing a work of art is as long as the original is not destroyed. And what is this political purpose you are talking about? I don’t see any connection to politics.

I'm not concerned about her not encountering male role models. I wrote "girls can learn leadership and toughness from male protagonists and heroes." That's what I would try to do with Link, not make him into a female.

I'm speaking very generally when I say "political purpose". I don't mean that he is advancing an ideology, but rather he is addressing a gripe he has with society, specifically the lack of female heroes. He is addressing this issue by changing a text. I don't agree with this, though I assume the father's intent was purely to help his daughter and not to push his politics on anyone.

Re: For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

#50

Post by sophacles »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #9
tptacek wrote: post #3

I don't understand why parents feel the need to be so politically correct. As 'yummyfajitas is sure to point out shortly, every empirical study ever conducted has shown that males have a statistically significant advantage in slaying Octoroks and Peahats.

As usual, a negative post has floated to the top. This time from one of Hacker News' most prolific and highly rated posters. It's not about being PC, it's about a cool hack and supporting one's daughters.

It was actually a sarcastic, intentional point missing. Humorous too. I thought I was well executed.

I will admit, the possibility of you out-Poe-ing tptacek is possible here tho....

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