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CEO of largest public hospital says he's ready to replace radiologists with AI

radiologybusiness.com

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Re: CEO of largest public hospital says he's ready to replace radiologists with AI

#41

Post by Betelbuddy »

storus wrote: post #27
luma wrote: post #19

Brother-in-law graduated med school in the early 90s and has been a practicing ER physician since. We discussed this recently and he related that his advisors told him not to go into radiology back in the late 80s because the assumption was that computers were going to take over the field. He's not too far away from retirement and it's only now that we're starting to see some signs of this prediction from 30+ years a…

The issue with radiologists is that on average they are able to spot ~35% of correct diagnoses, while the world's best radiologists ~45%. AI might get us to ~50% which is ~15% better than an average radiologist (who still needs to review it).

And you are going to provide the references that will sustain this opinion, so we can elevate it to a fact...

Re: CEO of largest public hospital says he's ready to replace radiologists with AI

#42

Post by parliament32 »

rickydroll wrote: post #14
squidhunter wrote: post #7

When can we start replacing CEOs with AI?

I don't think AI is ready to replace CEOs, but it would make a good assistant for an H-1B CEO.

If anyone is replaceable by AI, executives are first in line. Make "decisions" based on expert input, give presentations, sit in meetings and on calls. No liability, no concrete "work product" to speak of, so why not?

Re: CEO of largest public hospital says he's ready to replace radiologists with AI

#44

Post by storus »

Forgeties79 wrote: post #39
storus wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue with radiologists is that on average they are able to spot ~35% of correct diagnoses, while the world's best radiologists ~45%. AI might get us to ~50% which is ~15% better than an average radiologist (who still needs to review it).

Where are you getting these numbers? Even a cursory search doesn’t put the numbers anywhere near such poor performance by real people. AI at 50% would be notably worse (also where are you getting that number?)

From radiologist AI training datasets, evaluated long-term/post-mortem.

Re: CEO of largest public hospital says he's ready to replace radiologists with AI

#46

Post by givemeethekeys »

storus wrote: post #29
elephanlemon wrote: post #23

>amid rising demand for imaging Okay so demand for imaging is up, so we should GET RID of the radiologists? How about we AUGMENT them with AI so that they can do their job better and faster? Why does it need to be either or?

Currently they are augmenting them with Indian radiologists and just sign off whatever they found.

AI = Actual Indian.

Re: CEO of largest public hospital says he's ready to replace radiologists with AI

#47

Post by Forgeties79 »

storus wrote: post #44
Forgeties79 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are you getting these numbers? Even a cursory search doesn’t put the numbers anywhere near such poor performance by real people. AI at 50% would be notably worse (also where are you getting that number?)

From radiologist AI training datasets, evaluated long-term/post-mortem.

I hate to be “source?” about it but your numbers are so far off what every search result is showing.

Re: CEO of largest public hospital says he's ready to replace radiologists with AI

#48

Post by hattar »

storus wrote: post #27
luma wrote: post #19

Brother-in-law graduated med school in the early 90s and has been a practicing ER physician since. We discussed this recently and he related that his advisors told him not to go into radiology back in the late 80s because the assumption was that computers were going to take over the field. He's not too far away from retirement and it's only now that we're starting to see some signs of this prediction from 30+ years a…

The issue with radiologists is that on average they are able to spot ~35% of correct diagnoses, while the world's best radiologists ~45%. AI might get us to ~50% which is ~15% better than an average radiologist (who still needs to review it).

I assume the numbers are made up as an example.

I worry that rational takes like this end up completely lost in the battle between motivated parties who yell far louder, but have minimal investment in actual outcomes for those who will be depending on these technologies. The debate over self-driving vehicles is another example.

Re: CEO of largest public hospital says he's ready to replace radiologists with AI

#49

Post by amluto »

I find the whole field of radiology to be utterly baffling. There are doctors who specialize in, and hopefully understand, specific diseases and/or parts of the body. But we have radiologists who are supposed to be able to look at images, taken by quite a variety of technologies and parameters, of any part of the body, and are expected to accurately interpret the findings, possibly without any relevant context.

In my personal experience interacting with the medical system, it’s, unsurprisingly, quite common for an actual specialist to look at the same images a radiologist looked at, and see something quite different. And it’s nearly always the case that a specialist or a reasonable careful non-specialist who is willing to read a bit of the literature or even ask a chatbot [0], will figure out that at least half of what the radiologist says is utterly irrelevant.

So I think that the degree to which ML can perform as well as a radiologist is not necessarily a great measurement for ML’s ability to assist with medical care.

[0] Carefully. Mindlessly asking a chatbot will give complete nonsense.

Re: CEO of largest public hospital says he's ready to replace radiologists with AI

#50

Post by czbond »

storus wrote: post #27
luma wrote: post #19

Brother-in-law graduated med school in the early 90s and has been a practicing ER physician since. We discussed this recently and he related that his advisors told him not to go into radiology back in the late 80s because the assumption was that computers were going to take over the field. He's not too far away from retirement and it's only now that we're starting to see some signs of this prediction from 30+ years a…

The issue with radiologists is that on average they are able to spot ~35% of correct diagnoses, while the world's best radiologists ~45%. AI might get us to ~50% which is ~15% better than an average radiologist (who still needs to review it).

^ Knowing this, I would believe the best course of action for a hospital administrator would be to implement a "blind workflow" to reduce risk & lawsuits.

A radiologist should separately review a scan, an AI separately review it, and then combine the 2 results for review.

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