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For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

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Re: For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

#21

Post by ben0x539 »

Nathandim wrote: post #18
Permit wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the idea is that when kids are growing up, they make subconscious connections and observations about the world around them. If a young child plays video games and consistently sees that boys are always the hero, they might extrapolate that to simply: "Boys and always the hero". I don't have a strong opinion on the subject, I just thought I'd try and explain the position as I understand it.

I'm sorry but I'm firm to believe that the problem lies to the mind that makes the distinction first. If someone sees Link and the first thing that pops in his head is "what a shame he's not a girl" and retcon the intended storytelling to keep the content on par with their expectations then I certainly can't blame the game's creator. Not to mention that the boy isn't always the hero. I'll just bring another Nintendo…

> What is he planning to do? "Patch" every possible subconscious connections that his daughter might make for the next 5-10 years?

Maybe the plan is to make a bunch of noise about it so eventually game creators get used to the idea of catering to both halves of their audience.

I hope it works.

Re: For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

#22

Post by tedunangst »

Permit wrote: post #5
tptacek wrote: post #3

I don't understand why parents feel the need to be so politically correct. As 'yummyfajitas is sure to point out shortly, every empirical study ever conducted has shown that males have a statistically significant advantage in slaying Octoroks and Peahats.

I think the idea is that when kids are growing up, they make subconscious connections and observations about the world around them. If a young child plays video games and consistently sees that boys are always the hero, they might extrapolate that to simply: "Boys and always the hero". I don't have a strong opinion on the subject, I just thought I'd try and explain the position as I understand it.

Obvious solution is obvious. Children need to be forced to play more Metroid.

Re: For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

#23

Post by Tipzntrix »

zipdog wrote: post #10
tptacek wrote: post #3

I don't understand why parents feel the need to be so politically correct. As 'yummyfajitas is sure to point out shortly, every empirical study ever conducted has shown that males have a statistically significant advantage in slaying Octoroks and Peahats.

I find this an appropriate comment by Hofstadter, in the Intro to 'Godel Escher Bach', on the gender of the Tortoise: The Tortoise turns out never to have been attributed either gender. But when I first read it, the question never entered my mind. This was clearly a he-tortoise. After all, an author only introduces a female character for some special reason, right? Whereas a male character in a neutral context needs…

If you are talking about the Tortoise and the Hare, I personally also identified the tortoise as a male, but the hare as a female. It's just how the words sounded in my head.

I have not read GEB; perhaps it's a different tortoise you are talking about.

Re: For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

#24

Post by bcgraham »

Nathandim wrote: post #18
Permit wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the idea is that when kids are growing up, they make subconscious connections and observations about the world around them. If a young child plays video games and consistently sees that boys are always the hero, they might extrapolate that to simply: "Boys and always the hero". I don't have a strong opinion on the subject, I just thought I'd try and explain the position as I understand it.

I'm sorry but I'm firm to believe that the problem lies to the mind that makes the distinction first. If someone sees Link and the first thing that pops in his head is "what a shame he's not a girl" and retcon the intended storytelling to keep the content on par with their expectations then I certainly can't blame the game's creator. Not to mention that the boy isn't always the hero. I'll just bring another Nintendo…

Samus is hardly an exception; put into a suit that erases secondary sexual characteristics, the question of gender was (in the first game) left until the last possible minute, as nothing more than a "gotcha." In future games, Samus's gender is still hidden behind the suit.

Re: For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

#25

Post by cube13 »

mvarner wrote: post #15
tptacek wrote: post #3

I don't understand why parents feel the need to be so politically correct. As 'yummyfajitas is sure to point out shortly, every empirical study ever conducted has shown that males have a statistically significant advantage in slaying Octoroks and Peahats.

I think the point was less to be politically correct and more to personalize the game towards his daughter. He seems to really care about video games and wants to create the best possible experience for his daughter so that she can share that love. A large part of video games is basically pretending to be the character you're controlling, and a three year old girl who renamed the character after herself is generally…

I think you need to read the entirety of tptacek's post.

Re: For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

#26

Post by AgathaTheWitch »

This is a very cool hack, and I support the intention behind it. Still, it is something I would never do for two reasons:

For one, as an author, I disagree with altering a text for a political purpose. To be sure, this instance is fairly innocuous, and parents frequently change bedtime stories on the fly to suit their kids. Nevertheless I consider the Legend of Zelda to be a text with its own mythology and themes, and just as I wouldn't rewrite Hamlet as a girl for my daughter, I wouldn't do it to Link.

Secondly I think it is important to teach kids to have role-models of BOTH genders. Two of my brother's biggest fictional role-models growing up were Wonderwoman and Kusanagi from Ghost in the Shell. In the same way, girls can learn leadership and toughness from male protagonists and heroes. I'm not accusing this father of not knowing this, but it would be my approach were I playing Zelda with my daughter.

Re: For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

#28

Post by saraid216 »

tedunangst wrote: post #22
Permit wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the idea is that when kids are growing up, they make subconscious connections and observations about the world around them. If a young child plays video games and consistently sees that boys are always the hero, they might extrapolate that to simply: "Boys and always the hero". I don't have a strong opinion on the subject, I just thought I'd try and explain the position as I understand it.

Obvious solution is obvious. Children need to be forced to play more Metroid.

And only Metroid? Or can you produce a list?

Re: For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

#29

Post by Nathandim »

bcgraham wrote: post #24
Nathandim wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry but I'm firm to believe that the problem lies to the mind that makes the distinction first. If someone sees Link and the first thing that pops in his head is "what a shame he's not a girl" and retcon the intended storytelling to keep the content on par with their expectations then I certainly can't blame the game's creator. Not to mention that the boy isn't always the hero. I'll just bring another Nintendo…

Samus is hardly an exception; put into a suit that erases secondary sexual characteristics, the question of gender was (in the first game) left until the last possible minute, as nothing more than a "gotcha." In future games, Samus's gender is still hidden behind the suit.

With all due respect, if Nintendo were to introduce Samus with the blue suit that she's wearing in the latest game, then we would have other kinds of problems, mostly to do with how female characters are designed to appeal the male audience. My personal preference is that I like her wearing the classic yellow suit. After all, if a male can wear protective gear when he fights against pirates in space, I don't see why a female shouldn't.

Re: For Zelda-playing daughter, Dad gives Link a sex change

#30

Post by saraid216 »

dllthomas wrote: post #17
beering wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't about political correctness, and kneejerk dismissals like this aren't constructive.

Did... you stop reading the comment before the joke became apparent, to complain about the kneejerk nature of the comment?

You kind of need to know who yummyfajitas is, first. I didn't know who he was until I engaged him in a slapfight a week or so ago.
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