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Obama's Secret Weapon In The South is 129 Million Years Old

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Re: Obama's Secret Weapon In The South is 129 Million Years Old

#241

Post by clarky07 »

arrrg wrote: post #194
clarky07 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead we have a system that systematically disadvantages non black people. Just stop discriminating. Either way. No reason to have one or the other have an advantage. We just had a black man elected to his second term as president, so I think that's a pretty good sign we aren't that racist. This wouldn't have happened a few decades ago.

Uhm, that's not how it works. If you are white the odds are massively stacked in your favor. That doesn't mean you can't lose, but it's less likely. All AA does is fudge the odds a bit in the other direction. No more. Just stopping to discriminate would do nothing – because that's for the most part not the reason why the odds are stacked against minorities. Structural racism is the reason. Society is constructed in a…

Note the comment below. People in poverty in America by race ~24 mil white ~11 mil black ~14 mil hispanic I cannot and will not believe that in 2012 we have structural racism in America, the day after a black man named Barack Hussein Obama got elected to his second term as President of the United States. Is their racism? Yes. Is it structural and 100% pervasive? No.

The reason they have less opportunities is a structural problem, but it is not because of racism. Maybe it grew out of that, and it probably did, but at some point when they stopped you have to change yourself. The problem is lack of a family structure. The stats of black single mothers living in poverty vs. other races is unbelievable. We have to get fathers back to change this dynamic. I suspect racism and the things that caused along the way contributed to this, but now it is just that way because it's been that way. If you can turn this around, you can turn around a lot of communities, get rid of a lot of poverty, and provide as many opportunities as anyone could want for the black community.

Re: Obama's Secret Weapon In The South is 129 Million Years Old

#242

Post by jasonwocky »

clarky07 wrote: post #183
vec wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but the absolutely most qualified person for a whole bunch of things is disproportionately often white and male. And even if we as a society wake up tomorrow magically not racist or sexist at all, that will be the case for the foreseeable future simply because white men have disproportionate amounts of money and connections. Hiring through AA is _intentionally_ suboptimal. The whole point is to give members of d…

Instead we discriminate against the poor white guy from the ghetto growing up with a single mom? Brilliant. That guy had none of the supposed white male advantages. Hire/accept people based on their merits. If you want to take into account overcoming adversity that's fine with me. But picking someone based on the color of their skin, be it white, black, or other, is wrong, and it's racist.

> But picking someone based on the color of their skin, be it white, black, or other, is wrong

In these circumstances, some of us disagree with you.

Re: Obama's Secret Weapon In The South is 129 Million Years Old

#243

Post by Karunamon »

shantanubala wrote: post #240
Karunamon wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Now you might say, "but what if blacks and latinos just aren't suitable for our government, educational institutions, workforce, and popular culture?" Except I wouldn't say that, because first, it doesn't make any damn sense, and second, it's the kind of ignorant tripe you'd expect to hear a white supremacist say.

Ah, my bad -- the sentence was phrased a bit poorly. By "suitable" I meant "good for the job" -- ie there may not be a large enough pool of talent available to fill necessary roles appropriately. There's a common argument that, "maybe they just don't want the jobs" adequately explains and justifies the situation. I didn't mean it personally in any way, nor did I mean that your position automatically includes that kin…

Ok great, thanks for clarifying ^^

Re: Obama's Secret Weapon In The South is 129 Million Years Old

#245

Post by JoeAltmaier »

drharris wrote: post #200
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You read it as more than a storey. Ok. What's mysterious about people staying in the same place for generations? My people have been in Iowa since the Civil War too.

Well, it not only implies that black people don't move, but white people DO move. Either that or it assumes that the ratio of black to white was much greater than it likely was. It also assumes a lot of other things.

Was it Samuel Clemens that observer, what a harvest of speculation you get from a little statistics?

Re: Obama's Secret Weapon In The South is 129 Million Years Old

#246

Post by AnIrishDuck »

alecst wrote: post #220
arrrg wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, if you want to play semantic games then let's play semantic games. If you think any policy based on race is racism I will for the sake of the argument accept that weird definition and say that the racist AA policy is super awesome and that I full-heartedly support that racism. I'm a racist for AA!

Obviously not every policy based on race is racist, but affirmative action does advance a particular set of races. Call it whatever you want, but I think what the above poster has said is that to advance one race is to handicap another.

I'd like to point out that affirmative action directly leads to more racism. I've heard many racists assume that affirmative action is the sole reason someone (is in college|has that government job|got that scholarship).

Re: Obama's Secret Weapon In The South is 129 Million Years Old

#247

Post by iy56 »

tg3 wrote: post #192
iy56 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So we should shackle the other guy for a few years to compensate? Two wrongs don't make a right.

No, but ignoring prior wrongs also don't make them right. The goal should be to try to make the shackled man whole again, not just free. To give him what he needs to participate in society as if he had never been shackled. It doesn't take much statistical or anecdotal evidence to see that we are a long way off from that ideal scenario.

Many people disagree with you about what the goal should be.

You can't turn back time and undo abuse. Trying to do so is just a waste of resources. In the race metaphor, the solution would be to just make sure everyone starts on a even footing in the next heat. In real life, I would say that means making sure all children have equal access to healthcare and education, regardless of their parents' income or circumstances. I don't see why race-based policies are necessary to achieve this.

Re: Obama's Secret Weapon In The South is 129 Million Years Old

#248

Post by danilocampos »

clarky07 wrote: post #145
arrrg wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about until there no longer is any significant racism that systematically disadvantages black people?

Instead we have a system that systematically disadvantages non black people. Just stop discriminating. Either way. No reason to have one or the other have an advantage. We just had a black man elected to his second term as president, so I think that's a pretty good sign we aren't that racist. This wouldn't have happened a few decades ago.

> We just had a black man elected to his second term as president, so I think that's a pretty good sign we aren't that racist.

Sir, I say this with as much respect as I can muster: Absent significant study, it is absolutely not the place of someone who is a member of the racial majority to declare the extent or impact of racism. You simply have no idea what you're talking about.

A mixed race man was, indeed, elected to high office. He was elected over the objections of people who claimed him to be, among other things:

- A Kenyan

- A secret muslim

- A liar inelegible for the presidency under the terms of Section I, Article II of the United States constitution

These claims have been made and repeated for over four years. They are made, in part, because Barack Obama looks different from the men who have previously run the country. They are repeated because that fact scares the absolute shit out of a certain subset of the country.

Racism – far from vanquished – has proven to be a politically expedient tool. (Though, thankfully, one with toxic side effects.)

Have we made progress since the civil war and the civil rights movement? Yeah.

But racism is an ugly, nasty force that persists in both overt and subtle ways. It's not over. And for the people who must still grapple with its effects, it's a big problem.

Re: Obama's Secret Weapon In The South is 129 Million Years Old

#249

Post by iy56 »

silverbax88 wrote: post #225
rayiner wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The justification and rationale for race-based affirmative action is somewhat different from anything favoring people of low socioeconomic class generally. It has to do with correcting specific and massive historical wrongs in which our government was complicit, not lifting up disadvantaged people generally. Conflating the two is a little silly. If I destroy your house, you're not going to be happy if I make amends t…

We absolutely need affirmative action, based on race, based on gender, and based on ANY disenfranchised group. Corporations and colleges are still biased against race, because the demographics of corporations do not reflect the population as a whole, and if they were hiring correctly, they would. On other words - if 20% of the general population of 300 million people is a certain race, it stands to reason that corpor…

15% of the animal biomass on earth is ants, but I can look in the ocean and find thousands of fish yet very few ants.

There are women-only universities, historically black universities, universities that focus on arts and universities that focus on music. Why should the employee demographics of a coal mine be the same as the demographics of a hospice?

Re: Obama's Secret Weapon In The South is 129 Million Years Old

#250

Post by arrrg »

clarky07 wrote: post #241
arrrg wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhm, that's not how it works. If you are white the odds are massively stacked in your favor. That doesn't mean you can't lose, but it's less likely. All AA does is fudge the odds a bit in the other direction. No more. Just stopping to discriminate would do nothing – because that's for the most part not the reason why the odds are stacked against minorities. Structural racism is the reason. Society is constructed in a…

Note the comment below. People in poverty in America by race ~24 mil white ~11 mil black ~14 mil hispanic I cannot and will not believe that in 2012 we have structural racism in America, the day after a black man named Barack Hussein Obama got elected to his second term as President of the United States. Is their racism? Yes. Is it structural and 100% pervasive? No. The reason they have less opportunities is a struct…

You are completely ridiculous. It’s pointless even talking to people like you. Bye.
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