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U.S. exempts oil industry from protecting Gulf animals, for 'national security'

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Re: U.S. exempts oil industry from protecting Gulf animals, for 'national security'

#51

Post by ch4s3 »

dlev_pika wrote: post #9
ZunarJ5 wrote: post #3

"Definitive of what capitalism is, this separation severely limits the scope of the political. Devolving vast aspects of social life to the rule of “the market” (in reality, to large corporations), it declares them off-limits to democratic decision-making, collective action, and public control. Its very structure, therefore, deprives us of the ability to decide collectively exactly what and how much we want to produc…

[flagged]

The fascism of Europe in in the 1930s was EXPLICITLY anti-capitalist. You can read tons of statements by various prominent fascists about how capitalism was the tool of the British empire and "globalists"(they often used a different word). They viewed it as separating the people from the land. Capitalists were not in any way fundamental to the rise of Nazism.

If you're on about Pinochet, he only embraced market reforms 3 years after coming to power and came to power directly by a military coup. Business leaders had basically nothing to do with it.

Re: U.S. exempts oil industry from protecting Gulf animals, for 'national security'

#52

Post by 0xbadcafebee »

Of the 13 billion barrels of oil the US produces every day, 1.5 billion (15%) comes from the gulf. Despite this being more than enough oil (we are a net-exporter of oil), we import crude oil because our refineries need a different type of crude. The extra 15% of oil we are killing the environment over is for making a profit to export to other nations. It is not for national security.

Re: U.S. exempts oil industry from protecting Gulf animals, for 'national security'

#53

Post by waterTanuki »

Mistletoe wrote: post #4

Don’t say US. They don’t speak for us all. Only 49.8% of voters. Of which I hope a significant portion have seen the error of their ways come midterms and the next election. Every day is a new embarrassment law or action like this for America until then. I’ve never felt lower about America in my lifetime. The hope I had, the pride I felt in America, is gone, chunk by chunk, piece by piece, every day.

Everyone who sat out the 2016 and 2024 elections is responsible for this clown getting into office.

*Democracy is not a spectator sport*. You don't get to complain about corrupt politicians and then go on to make excuses about why you can't vote. You're wasting your citizenship. Either go vote or move to a dictatorship where voting isn't a concern.

Re: U.S. exempts oil industry from protecting Gulf animals, for 'national security'

#54

Post by Glyptodon »

alanwreath wrote: post #22

Wasn’t diversifying US energy sources also a national security issue? And wind energy was set aside because, wait for it, they killed animals. Birds to be specific.

The folks in charge just want what they want without rhyme or reason. Mix a mind virus and joy of power together and get your eratic clown show. And many times it can go on a lot longer than you'd ever guess.

Unfortunately as a society we keep moving further and further away from the foundations of a functional society based on a representative government and considering the general welfare.

Re: U.S. exempts oil industry from protecting Gulf animals, for 'national security'

#55

Post by georgemcbay »

brendoelfrendo wrote: post #31
Mistletoe wrote: post #4

Don’t say US. They don’t speak for us all. Only 49.8% of voters. Of which I hope a significant portion have seen the error of their ways come midterms and the next election. Every day is a new embarrassment law or action like this for America until then. I’ve never felt lower about America in my lifetime. The hope I had, the pride I felt in America, is gone, chunk by chunk, piece by piece, every day.

I mean, I didn't vote for Trump, but I think it should be the US. This administration represents us on the global stage. You may not like it, and it may not feel fair, but we will all have to bear the consequences of their actions. Every day something like this happens--and is allowed to happen--is an embarrassment to all of us.

Agreed.

I voted against Trump 3 times. But people outside of the US should definitely act as if they cannot trust the US. Because they can't. I mean ffs we collectively elected him twice.

Re: U.S. exempts oil industry from protecting Gulf animals, for 'national security'

#56

Post by kingkawn »

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #47

2028: "To be secure as a nation we need to stamp out all dissent against the government and require all citizens to swear unyielding loyalty to the President."

This is 100% coming barring a mass political rising

Re: U.S. exempts oil industry from protecting Gulf animals, for 'national security'

#57

Post by kettlecorn »

crooked-v wrote: post #5

Oppositional defiant disorder on a cultural scale. Liberals want to protect animals and shift to use of green energy; therefore the fossil fuel industry must be promoted at all cost (even when they don't want to be, as with Trump forcing obsolete coal plants to remain open) and endangered animals must be killed off.

It often seems like the contemporary American "conservative" feels that in order to oppose progressives they must become regressives.

Re: U.S. exempts oil industry from protecting Gulf animals, for 'national security'

#58

Post by bit-anarchist »

ZunarJ5 wrote: post #3

"Definitive of what capitalism is, this separation severely limits the scope of the political. Devolving vast aspects of social life to the rule of “the market” (in reality, to large corporations), it declares them off-limits to democratic decision-making, collective action, and public control. Its very structure, therefore, deprives us of the ability to decide collectively exactly what and how much we want to produc…

Capitalism (in the libertarian sense of the word) makes these "vast aspects of social life" off-limits to democratic deliberation in the same way it does for unrelated private corporations: without authorization from the rightful owners, it is supposed to be illegal (not to say that has stopped either).

She uses terms like "us", "we", "collective", but who are these? All the constituents, the people, in their totality, they are not, for people are not a homogeneous mass. In practice, it, along with democracy, just becomes a nice rhetoric device for stripping people of their rights.

Democracy was never really a good solution to an inclusive society-wide governance system. Most successful implementation even need to add limits to it to prevent the mob rule that's a feature to it. Some try to pretend it is anti-authoritarian, because the members get a vote. But that vote only matters when the voter is part of a majority. If they aren't, they might as well not even have it. That alone already creates a hierarchy. And it only gets worse: most people belong to minority of sorts, and they, by design, get alienated. This means that the doesn't really represent anyone... other than itself, very much like a corporation.

Which leads to the final point: capitalism (in the Marxist sense of the word) isn't antidemocratic. Democracy isn't in opposition to corporatocrocy, it requires a corporation large enough to own everything. Thus, dare I say, the democracy she seems to envision might as well be one of the forms of ultra peak capitalism.

Re: U.S. exempts oil industry from protecting Gulf animals, for 'national security'

#59

Post by glitchc »

crooked-v wrote: post #5

Oppositional defiant disorder on a cultural scale. Liberals want to protect animals and shift to use of green energy; therefore the fossil fuel industry must be promoted at all cost (even when they don't want to be, as with Trump forcing obsolete coal plants to remain open) and endangered animals must be killed off.

Let me rephrase that to provide a different connotation: Liberals want to kill economic progress to save a few animals.

Neither side is honest, it's just a matter of framing and perspective.

Re: U.S. exempts oil industry from protecting Gulf animals, for 'national security'

#60

Post by glitchc »

Mistletoe wrote: post #4

Don’t say US. They don’t speak for us all. Only 49.8% of voters. Of which I hope a significant portion have seen the error of their ways come midterms and the next election. Every day is a new embarrassment law or action like this for America until then. I’ve never felt lower about America in my lifetime. The hope I had, the pride I felt in America, is gone, chunk by chunk, piece by piece, every day.

People who didn't vote voted for the winning party. That's true in every election.
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