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Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

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Re: Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

#251

Post by Quarrelsome »

protocolture wrote: post #244
Quarrelsome wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What this current administration is doing speaks much more of a lack of strategy than what the Khans did in the 13th century. Not having any sort of counterplay to Iran's one big move (the blocking of the straight), in a nation of some of the brighest minds on the planet, speaks volumes of how advisors are clearly not being listened to. The powers of the once mighty Republic have seemingly been vested in the hands of…

>in a nation of some of the brighest minds on the planet Found the assumption that caused the issue.

Its not a false assumption. The world today is full of innovative products built with American capital and mostly American minds. If Americans want to do something then they have an rich pool of talent to do it well.

Sure on average, the population of the US is stupid, but that's true of everywhere.

Re: Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

#252

Post by neonstatic »

freefaler wrote: post #133
chneu wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This just came up yesterday in the sauna with a bunch of dudes. Everything feels unique and special, but we're just repeating history again. Nothing about this situation is actually unique. Change a few names, a few numbers like the year or GPS coords, but most everything today is just history repeating itself. Don't let capitalism convince us to do bad stuff cuz it makes us feel like the moment is special. It isn't.…

How is capitalism in the wrong here? Resource warfare is universal trough the history in any society. The check and balances of the US President that can start an offensive war is more a political problem, not "capitalism" problem.

Didn't you hear? Capitalism is the root of all evil :) At least among English speaking "smart people of America and Europe".

Re: Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

#253

Post by paxys »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #203
yomismoaqui wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I prefer having those minds focused on optimizing ad serving than on optimizing school bombings.

Having those minds eliminate targeting mistakes wouldn't make a difference?

Sure, "mistakes"

Re: Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

#254

Post by jLaForest »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #187
phyzome wrote: post #184

Ooh, ooh, is it because it would be mindnumbingly stupid ? [reads article] Yep, got it in one!

Americans have been sold an image of the US being an omnipotent presence, due to its Navy. It is a legitimate question to wonder why a relatively weak, long embargoed country has the power to control the waters when the US has spent a pretty penny on all these warplanes and aircraft carriers. If little Iran can prevent the US from being able to establish security in a little straight, it (ideally) shatters that image…

You over estimate the American publics capacity for critical thought and reflection. Most Americans will come away from this humiliation thinking we just need to increase the military budget

Re: Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

#255

Post by PunchyHamster »

tim333 wrote: post #225

>The era of carrier-dominated airpower is fading, as cheap, unmanned anti-ship weapons reshape naval warfare, whether US planners are ready for it or not. is not really backed up by reality. Pretty much the whole US operation so far, destroying much of Iran's military and leadership was done from US carriers. If anything it demonstrates how powerful they are. Also straits being closed to shipping by whatever power co…

> is not really backed up by reality. Pretty much the whole US operation so far, destroying much of Iran's military and leadership was done from US carriers. If anything it demonstrates how powerful they are.

The country with 0.3% of global spending in military is putting a noticeable dent in assets of country that has 35% of global spending in military and are begging allies for help coz they can't even stop the drones

With that level of difference you'd expect whole thing to end already and yet it is not. So any actor at even 10% scale of US going all in in drones would probably obliterate US navy without all that much. US is behind and frankly invested in wrong tech over the years.

That is not to say carriers are going away any time soon, you need to ship the firepower to the target somehow, but one filled to 3/4 with drones would probably be far more effective

Re: Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

#256

Post by TacticalCoder »

brokencode wrote: post #235
tim333 wrote: post #225

>The era of carrier-dominated airpower is fading, as cheap, unmanned anti-ship weapons reshape naval warfare, whether US planners are ready for it or not. is not really backed up by reality. Pretty much the whole US operation so far, destroying much of Iran's military and leadership was done from US carriers. If anything it demonstrates how powerful they are. Also straits being closed to shipping by whatever power co…

I agree that this conflict in Iran doesn’t really indicate that the aircraft carrier is any weaker now than it ever was. Though I do worry about the possibility of a more sophisticated opponent being able to launch swarms of drones and missiles at aircraft carriers. More than any air defense could ever stop.

> ... drones

Regarding drones they are, by definition, not very sturdy: for they're drones and not B52 bombers or bunkers.

What's very likely going to happen is that, just I can take a Browning B525 Sporter balltrap shotgun and shoot any civilian drone from afar because the gun shoots an expanding cloud of tiny, cheap, pellets, armies are now going to come up with systems to both defend and destroy drones.

I'm not saying the drones used in war are the same as DJI drones: what I'm saying is that with the proper tech, they're much less expensive to take down than, say, a ballistic missile or an aircraft carrier.

Anyone seeing this conflict and thinking that the militaro-industrial complex isn't hard at work working on solutions to take down drones is smoking heavy stuff.

Ukrainian and Russian did it already (although it's nothing serious, it's just an example): here we were talking about actual tiny drones, carrying explosives, and running towards vehicles. As a cheap defense measures, they started immediately adding metallic "spikes" (not unlike hairs) to the vehicles, so that the drone wouldn't reach the vehicle's body and instead explode when hitting the mettalic spikes.

War has always been about "tech x" / "anti tech x". This time is not going to be different.

> Though I do worry about the possibility of a more sophisticated opponent being able to launch swarms of drones and missiles at aircraft carriers.

China. They're demos of thousands of drones fully synchronized in the sky at night making nice 3D patterns with everybody on the ground going "aaaah" and "wooooow" is a display of military capability.

I'm not saying it's not a concern: but it's not as if the US (and others) were going to sit and think "oh drones exists, the concept of war is over".

Re: Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

#257

Post by kergonath »

pedroma wrote: post #174
jacquesm wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We could learn from our allies in Ukraine. Should have worn a suit. The US is not an ally of Ukraine, it sees Ukraine as a nuisance that should have rolled over long ago but somehow refuses to and because the US still needs Europe for a bit longer (but maybe not that much longer) they're still playing ball as long as Europe pays (as it should, but that's besides the point). Allies come to each others aid, the US ha…

This sentiment is very popular in Europe. From the perspective of the American, it's like, help was offered for 90% of the time in the Ukraine conflict, then we took a break and suddenly we are more an enemy than China. From my point of view, the pushing away is not one-sided like Europeans like to portray, but has been mutual for awhile.

> suddenly we are more an enemy than China

That’s a straw man. Nobody argued that before you mentioned it.

Re: Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

#258

Post by PunchyHamster »

Balgair wrote: post #113

In chapter 11 of All Quiet on the Western Front Paul and his unit find an abandoned food cache in the middle of no mans land. Instead of secreting away the food back to their lines where they will have to share it, they decide to just cook and eat it right then and there. But a spotter plane from the allies sees the smoke and then begins shelling their position. Cue a terrifying, if hilarious, scene where the soldier…

Well, no, the goal is very clear - try to somehow make reps not lose next election and take focus away from PDF files

Re: Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

#259

Post by munificent »

sph wrote: post #93
poulpy123 wrote: post #19

I'm always perturbed to see people talk of mass killings so casually

Number 1 reason why I want to see the United States of America and its very loud citizens get a taste of humble pie in this self-inflicted crisis of idiocy with global ramifications. Even when discussing a war that's obviously gone out of hand with no easy resolution in right, there's still this air, this attitude from American commenters that somehow the might and brilliance of the US military will prevail in the en…

> I want to see the United States of America and its very loud citizens get a taste of humble pie in this self-inflicted crisis of idiocy with global ramifications.

I sympathize with the sentiment even though I am American. The problem with this is that Americans are not a uniform cohort.

The people who deserve to eat humble pie in this scenario are neck deep in propaganda and their own inflated egos and will never learn any rational lesson from this despite how catastrophically it might go. The Americans who are paying attention and will understand the harm of this operation already know it's a fiasco and wish the country was doing anything but what it is doing.

Re: Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

#260

Post by nirav72 »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #224
RobotToaster wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we just going to ignore the fact that targeting civilian infrastructure is yet another war crime?

We'll make Hegseth regret it deeply when the time comes for his trial, but right now I don't know that there's much to do about that fact.

Many said the same thing during the G.W Bush years. Nothing happened.
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