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Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

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Re: Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

#211

Post by qup »

randomNumber7 wrote: post #196
Quarrelsome wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What this current administration is doing speaks much more of a lack of strategy than what the Khans did in the 13th century. Not having any sort of counterplay to Iran's one big move (the blocking of the straight), in a nation of some of the brighest minds on the planet, speaks volumes of how advisors are clearly not being listened to. The powers of the once mighty Republic have seemingly been vested in the hands of…

> in a nation of some of the brighest minds on the planet You mean the people who voted for trump or those who voted for the democrats? Are there some causal reasons you think americans are smarter than people in other countries?

IQ testing?

Inbreeding as a cultural norm?

Not smarter than the Japanese.

Re: Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

#212

Post by jandrewrogers »

kashunstva wrote: post #10

Whether or not professional military strategists and planners anticipated this shift in carrier-based projection of power in the era of low-cost drones, it is nearly certain that the Commander-in-Chief of the United States military has not. And if the Commander is involved in the either the day-to-day operations or the strategic level of planning, I can’t imagine that whatever reasoning about these shifts in power dy…

An aerial drone capable of materially damaging a modern navy ship costs $1-2M a piece. Anything much cheaper doesn't have the range, survivability, or required warhead to do much more than scratch the paint.

A cheap drone is only useful against soft targets. It is the reason Ukraine is scaling up heavy cruise missile production even though they already have vast numbers of cheap long-range drones. Being "cheap" isn't of much value if it is incapable of doing meaningful damage to the desired target.

The US has been designing and building thousands of anti-ship drones since the 1970s. It isn't like they have no experience with the concept and those drones are far more capable than anything Iran has. The US Navy has assumed drone swarms as a threat model for half a century.

Re: Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

#213

Post by Quarrelsome »

alpaca128 wrote: post #188
narrator wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump already said he was just going to bomb all their infrastructure so the economy of the country couldn't function if they didn't negotiate and then it's just going to be a mass refugee crisis. It would be a mass refugee crisis anyway with a protracted ground invasion, but more Americans would die, so Trump is choosing to get it over with the easy way for America at least if they won't negotiate. IMHO, This is pre…

> he was just going to bomb all their infrastructure That's usually the idea ever since bombs were a thing. It just so happens that it's harder to actually pull off than to say it.

and nor does it result in victory without the follow up of a ground assault.

I'm legit baffled by the US engaging in a war that suffers exactly the same negative properties as the Saudi's war in Yemen. You don't even have to learn from history, the Saudi/Yemeni conflict is still active today. Air campaigns alone are entirely insufficient, especially if your enemy has mountains.

Re: Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

#214

Post by RobotToaster »

narrator wrote: post #151
Balgair wrote: post #113

In chapter 11 of All Quiet on the Western Front Paul and his unit find an abandoned food cache in the middle of no mans land. Instead of secreting away the food back to their lines where they will have to share it, they decide to just cook and eat it right then and there. But a spotter plane from the allies sees the smoke and then begins shelling their position. Cue a terrifying, if hilarious, scene where the soldier…

Trump already said he was just going to bomb all their infrastructure so the economy of the country couldn't function if they didn't negotiate and then it's just going to be a mass refugee crisis. It would be a mass refugee crisis anyway with a protracted ground invasion, but more Americans would die, so Trump is choosing to get it over with the easy way for America at least if they won't negotiate. IMHO, This is pre…

Are we just going to ignore the fact that targeting civilian infrastructure is yet another war crime?

Re: Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

#215

Post by shawn_w »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #176
Balgair wrote: post #113

In chapter 11 of All Quiet on the Western Front Paul and his unit find an abandoned food cache in the middle of no mans land. Instead of secreting away the food back to their lines where they will have to share it, they decide to just cook and eat it right then and there. But a spotter plane from the allies sees the smoke and then begins shelling their position. Cue a terrifying, if hilarious, scene where the soldier…

> Cue a terrifying, if hilarious, scene where the soldiers try and cook pancakes as shells explode around them. In the 1974 movie The Four Musketeers , Athos needs to find a private place in which to impart some information to d'Artagnan. The musketeers are currently deployed battling some French rebels. The solution he finds is to place a bet with another soldier that he and his friends will have breakfast inside a…

Movie? That happens in the original book.

Re: Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

#216

Post by angry_octet »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #85
Someone wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

: Stupidly, yes, with carpet bombing. Practically, no, that would be horrible. Could that work? It didn’t end well in Vietnam, which is about a fifth of the land area, and, in 1970, half the current population of Iran. Also, they’ll pack a bigger punch, but I think the USA has way fewer bombers now.

> Could that work? It didn’t end well in Vietnam We can't carpet bomb to regime change. But we can probably depopulate critical areas around the coasts while ships transit. It's stupidly expensive, both in materiel and collateral cost. But it's feasible. Whether we have the bomb-production is a separate question to which I don't have the answer.

Depopulation won't stop the IRGC from digging up a Shahed buried in the sand and launching it. The range is so great you would have to pacify the entire east of Iran, an absolutely impossible task.

Re: Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

#217

Post by CamperBob2 »

freefaler wrote: post #133
chneu wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This just came up yesterday in the sauna with a bunch of dudes. Everything feels unique and special, but we're just repeating history again. Nothing about this situation is actually unique. Change a few names, a few numbers like the year or GPS coords, but most everything today is just history repeating itself. Don't let capitalism convince us to do bad stuff cuz it makes us feel like the moment is special. It isn't.…

How is capitalism in the wrong here? Resource warfare is universal trough the history in any society. The check and balances of the US President that can start an offensive war is more a political problem, not "capitalism" problem.

"Everything I don't like is woke." - Right

"Everything I don't like is capitalism." - Left

Re: Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

#218

Post by nickff »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #187
phyzome wrote: post #184

Ooh, ooh, is it because it would be mindnumbingly stupid ? [reads article] Yep, got it in one!

Americans have been sold an image of the US being an omnipotent presence, due to its Navy. It is a legitimate question to wonder why a relatively weak, long embargoed country has the power to control the waters when the US has spent a pretty penny on all these warplanes and aircraft carriers. If little Iran can prevent the US from being able to establish security in a little straight, it (ideally) shatters that image…

Iran does not 'control the waters', it is denying access; this is an importance difference. Lacking control means that Iran cannot make use of many of its naval assets, which they have invested in.

Re: Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

#219

Post by Quarrelsome »

NooneAtAll3 wrote: post #169
pjc50 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We could learn from our allies in Ukraine. Give them capital and manufacturing bases in America I think the Ukranians are still unimpressed with the withdrawal of US support, especially from the shells which were being manufactured in the US (now moved to Rheinmetall), and the de-sanctioning of Russian oil: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2871wyz9ko

Ukrainians are unimpressed that US no longer supports war to exhaustion. US in unimpressed that Ukraine supported other side in elections Problem is that US wants to distance itself instead of ending the conflict

> US in unimpressed that Ukraine supported other side in elections

Sorry, what is "the other side" exactly?

Re: Why the US Navy won't blast the Iranians and 'open' Strait of Hormuz

#220

Post by oniony »

shawn_w wrote: post #215
thaumasiotes wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cue a terrifying, if hilarious, scene where the soldiers try and cook pancakes as shells explode around them. In the 1974 movie The Four Musketeers , Athos needs to find a private place in which to impart some information to d'Artagnan. The musketeers are currently deployed battling some French rebels. The solution he finds is to place a bet with another soldier that he and his friends will have breakfast inside a…

Movie? That happens in the original book.

Does it not also happen in the movie?
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