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Oracle slashes 30k jobs

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Re: Oracle slashes 30k jobs

#391

Post by layer8 »

lenerdenator wrote: post #245
jvanderbot wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oracle and Java are deeply embedded in US gov work. How deep? Let's just say a large number of classified developer jobs hire for Java. Ellison has been a huge proponent of a surveillance state, and that likely ingratiates him with certain three letter agencies. The only developers I know who write Java full time work in systems that take pictures of things from far away.

The question then becomes, does Java warrant the valuation Oracle has when the language itself is mostly FLOSS?

Oracle effectively still largely controls the evolution of the language and of OpenJDK, and Java is still a registered Oracle trademark. While it could be forked and renamed if necessary (as happened in the javax –> jakarta transition), that would likely end up being quite disruptive and costly.

That being said, Oracle’s valuation is based on their huge integrated ecosystem. That they also control Java, while not insignificant, probably only plays a minor role there.

Re: Oracle slashes 30k jobs

#392

Post by mwcampbell »

Verdex wrote: post #371
bcantrill wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do take a perverse kind of pride that this can now be said without any explicit reference -- and everyone knows you're talking about the lawnmower.

Whenever the lawnmower thing comes up, I try to also mention dtrace. As far as things to be remembered for, they make some strange bedfellows... although it's better than anything I've managed so I guess congrats.

DTrace was absolutely a product of pre-Oracle Sun, not Oracle.

Re: Oracle slashes 30k jobs

#393

Post by losvedir »

jvanderbot wrote: post #194
kyledrake wrote: post #157

The bulk of the comments in here are focused on comparing Larry Ellison to a lawn mower, so I'll try a new tack and say that I'm genuinely confused at what the value prop of Oracle is. Given the history of their business model being licensing of important databases that are hard to switch off of, I've actually made a point to avoid using Oracle as much as possible (even so far as to leave MySQL when they acquired it,…

Oracle and Java are deeply embedded in US gov work. How deep? Let's just say a large number of classified developer jobs hire for Java. Ellison has been a huge proponent of a surveillance state, and that likely ingratiates him with certain three letter agencies. The only developers I know who write Java full time work in systems that take pictures of things from far away.

What? What kind of ridiculous bubble are you in? Isn't Java one of the main languages at Google, Netflix, Amazon, etc?

Re: Oracle slashes 30k jobs

#394

Post by troyvit »

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #324
troyvit wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why stick with for-profit companies? But on measure I'd say System76, n8n, Nextcloud, GridX, Odoo, Tuxedo, GitLab, Uplight, Aurora Solar, Bandcamp (maybe), Bitwarden, Canonical (maybe), Scribd, Arcadia, Wikihow. Basically any time you find yourself enjoying a product you're using, see who made it and if they're hiring. Sure it's an uphill battle. This is late-stage capitalism after all and unless you're comfortable w…

Because for profits have the most employment opportunities? All of the companies named in replies to my initial comment hire a minuscule number of people.

If you're looking to scale, then you're looking for companies that scale, and if you're looking for companies that scale, you're not looking for angels. I used to think Cloudflare was an exception to this belief but today I'm not so sure.

Re: Oracle slashes 30k jobs

#395

Post by amiga386 »

jvanderbot wrote: post #194
kyledrake wrote: post #157

The bulk of the comments in here are focused on comparing Larry Ellison to a lawn mower, so I'll try a new tack and say that I'm genuinely confused at what the value prop of Oracle is. Given the history of their business model being licensing of important databases that are hard to switch off of, I've actually made a point to avoid using Oracle as much as possible (even so far as to leave MySQL when they acquired it,…

Oracle and Java are deeply embedded in US gov work. How deep? Let's just say a large number of classified developer jobs hire for Java. Ellison has been a huge proponent of a surveillance state, and that likely ingratiates him with certain three letter agencies. The only developers I know who write Java full time work in systems that take pictures of things from far away.

There are probably millions of corporate projects written in Java. One of the reasons Oracle bought Sun Microsystems (who invented Java) was because Oracle itself had written so much middleware crap in Java.

Both Java and C#/.NET are super-popular in Enterprise land, with the choice between them mainly being if the enterprise is a Microsoft shop or not.

Everything SAP touches is written in Java too, and it's boring old payroll stuff. There's the entire Android user interface with millions of Java-only app developers.

Oracle may well be in bed with the spooks, but it's not a Java-specific thing.

Re: Oracle slashes 30k jobs

#396

Post by guerrilla »

ponector wrote: post #388
jimkleiber wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if companies understand the emotional impact on the laid off and the layoff survivors. It almost seems like a terror campaign, whether intended or not.

This is American way. There are no people, only resources.

Literally, "Human Resources". Such a disgusting phrase.

Re: Oracle slashes 30k jobs

#397

Post by dominotw »

jaccola wrote: post #342
wnevets wrote: post #308

Very often people will defend these kind of layouts as the result of overhiring but then shouldn't the leadership that over hired 30K people also be held accountable?

I think this sucks for the people being laid off but what exactly should they be held accountable for? It's not like over-hiring or laying people off is a crime. The employees presumably knew the deal going in (that they could be laid off). They got compensated for the time they worked. No one owed them a job at Oracle in the first place. (Again, not to diminish how bad it feels / shocking it can be to be laid off!)

making wrong decisions at work has no consequences for you? where do you work?

Re: Oracle slashes 30k jobs

#398

Post by daneel_w »

kyledrake wrote: post #157

The bulk of the comments in here are focused on comparing Larry Ellison to a lawn mower, so I'll try a new tack and say that I'm genuinely confused at what the value prop of Oracle is. Given the history of their business model being licensing of important databases that are hard to switch off of, I've actually made a point to avoid using Oracle as much as possible (even so far as to leave MySQL when they acquired it,…

From small-scale use over the course of several years, I've found their "cloud" (OCI) to be a solid and well-planned product. Additionally, I've experienced not one single outage or hiccup so far (Stockholm region).

Re: Oracle slashes 30k jobs

#399

Post by chasd00 »

lljk_kennedy wrote: post #280
guywithahat wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this sentiment. I'm absolutely significantly more productive with AI; so much moreso that I now have freetime and we haven't needed to replace an engineer who left. On the flip side my coworkers who think they're above AI are drowning. I think there is an endemic problem of senior engineers who think they're above learning AI and agents who don't want to use them, and these cuts are about forcing t…

Are you paid significantly more for your newfound productivity?

he mentions being paid more in terms of time, "I now have freetime". I can relate, in the right use cases it is nice to do some work estimated for 12 hrs in 2.

Re: Oracle slashes 30k jobs

#400

Post by vips7L »

tombert wrote: post #256
wredcoll wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon, among others, write a lot of java, but they want absolutely nothing to do with oracle licenses for java

I worked for a drug discovery company doing Java [1] since we were using Kafka Streams very liberally, but everything was done with the OpenJDK Temurin distribution. It was drilled into our heads on the first day do not install anything from Oracle . I think they were afraid of some weird lawsuit unless they bought an expensive license. I totally get it, but it made me a bit sad because they were even weary of someth…

HotSpot also has lots of things to speed up start time. Project Leyden has made a lot of advancements. AOTCache and crac etc.
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